Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Solar Guppy]

Manual for MSTE's Sunny Island Charger 40 says, "© 2004 to 2008 SMA Solar Technology AG. All rights reserved"
That would make it 18 years.

Turns out the Sunnyboy was released in 2001

Trace was where most companies spawned off, Brain Faley Started Magnum, The Gudgel brothers started Outback ( years later Midnight ) in the 2002 time frame, just before I got involved with what was then Xantrex whom had purchased Trace some months earlier.

In a world where electronics has a typical shelf life of 18 months, the products of all these efforts still around is impressive.

 

[Hedges]

correction:
1991, SMA's first PV inverter in production (Sunny Boy?)
In 2001, battery inverter Sunny Island released.

 

[robby]

I see there is a video out from Signature Solar with a new firmware update which fixes the particular problem discussed in this thread.

EG4 LifePower4 Firmware Update | Pre-charge Start for Small Battery Banks | EG4 Server Rack Battery

It allows a single EG4 LiFePower4 to start up 2 Schneider XW Pros simultaneously. It isn't suggest to install this on batteries that are not experiencing problems nor for batteries installed with the conditions discussed in this thread.

Props to Signature Solar finding a solution!

Wanna make a bet that they made the Firmware bypass the Pre-Charge system?

 

[McRod]

Inrush - have you determined if the lithium batteries are able to charge up inverter capacitors without tripping? Do you end up with good voltage actually on inverter input?

You could try this: Power up with FLA. Connect lithium in parallel. Disconnect FLA.
That would precharge and supply sufficient current for inverter. (As compared to a precharge resistor which might be insufficient if inverter immediately sucks current.)

Fuses - got one on the lithium bank? Is it still good?

I know this reply is older, but this has been my solution (temporary). The only issue is that you can't disconnect the DC power source providing the bridge for the EG4s because the next time your system switches from using an AC source, like a generator at night, then shuts off, the EG4s will not meet the DC requirements of the inverter and you will be without power.

 

[McRod]

I see there is a video out from Signature Solar with a new firmware update which fixes the particular problem discussed in this thread.

EG4 LifePower4 Firmware Update | Pre-charge Start for Small Battery Banks | EG4 Server Rack Battery

It allows a single EG4 LiFePower4 to start up 2 Schneider XW Pros simultaneously. It isn't suggest to install this on batteries that are not experiencing problems nor for batteries installed with the conditions discussed in this thread.

Props to Signature Solar finding a solution!

They found a solution that only they have tried, lets get some user feedback before we start the parade. @sten has tried the firmware upgrade and it didn't fix his problem.

 

[Koldsimer]

They found a solution that only they have tried, lets get some user feedback before we start the parade. @sten has tried the firmware upgrade and it didn't fix his problem.

Not only that, it's a problem that they have never been able to duplicate in house according to them. How could they possibly claim to fix a problem they have never been able to replicate? They need to provide the details of this fix so folks can feel confident about going forward if they decide to install the new firmware.

 

[Shimmy]

Not only that, it's a problem that they have never been able to duplicate in house according to them. How could they possibly claim to fix a problem they have never been able to replicate? They need to provide the details of this fix so folks can feel confident about going forward if they decide to install the new firmware.

In fairness, with the right test equipment it is possible that you can see the cause without seeing the problem. (It is also possible to just disable the pre-charge circuit and hope for the best...)

 

[robby]

In fairness, with the right test equipment it is possible that you can see the cause without seeing the problem. (It is also possible to just disable the pre-charge circuit and hope for the best...)

Just made a quick pop 6 months into the future and found a 50 page thread "EG4 BMS blew up while starting my Inverter". It's a terrible tale of lad trying to get his battery fixed but they insist his Inverter was installed "Outside of Industry Standards" and the wee battery just could not take the strain.
Since he used firmware that they offer but do not recommend he is SOL and must ship back the battery and pay all charges.

Oh yeah and @Shimmy you had a thread about winning the lottery and said I'm outta here Bitches. ?

 

[sten]

They found a solution that only they have tried, lets get some user feedback before we start the parade. @sten has tried the firmware upgrade and it didn't fix his problem.

I got a new inverter today from Signature Solar and it fixed my issue of the battery going into an alarm state. So for me was a faulty inverter...

 

[Hedges]

"faulty"

Happen to have four lead-acid batteries you could connect in series and try powering the inverter with?
Then you can tell us if it was actually "faulty".

 

[sten]

"faulty"

Happen to have four lead-acid batteries you could connect in series and try powering the inverter with?
Then you can tell us if it was actually "faulty".

FWIW my inverter had continuity between +/- which makes sense that there was the alarm preventing the short.

 

[Horsefly]

FWIW my inverter had continuity between +/- which makes sense that there was the alarm preventing the short.

The front-end capacitors would be dead, and would appear as a short-circuit to your continuity tester. That's the whole point of the pre-charge: charge up the capacitors so they do not appear as a dead short to the battery when it is turned on. So the continuity between the battery terminals of the inverter is not - by itself - an indication that there was anything wrong with the inverter.

 

[sten]

The front-end capacitors would be dead, and would appear as a short-circuit to your continuity tester. That's the whole point of the pre-charge: charge up the capacitors so they do not appear as a dead short to the battery when it is turned on. So the continuity between the battery terminals of the inverter is not - by itself - an indication that there was anything wrong with the inverter.

Interesting... thats how Signature Solar diagnosed the issue. I got a new inverter sent to me and out of the box i checked for continuiuty right away before i did anything and there was none.

 

[sten]

Interesting... thats how Signature Solar diagnosed the issue. I got a new inverter sent to me and out of the box i checked for continuiuty right away before i did anything and there was none.

My batteries have precharge resistor built into them - the eg4 ones..

 

[jyoung1]

I finally powered up my xw pro with four eg4 48v batteries with no issues. I had to turn inverter switch on first, then turn on batteries. One battery will turn on the inverter, no issues.

 

[Hedges]

To have shorted input would mean the inverter couldn't function at all. Either never tested at the factory, or blown after test?

To have no continuity out of the box sounds like no decoupling capacitors connected directly to battery terminals. Is there a battery breaker in the inverter? Order of operation, as jyoung1 mentions.

So many people have reported inverters which ran just fine on every battery they tried, except the one they bought from SS. The inrush to a capacitor can be massive, trips BMS, blows class-T fuses. Yet none of us ever had that problem with lead-acid. We suspect there is variable behavior between inverters, even of same model, and marginal performance of the built-in precharge circuit.


Can you connect the "fault" inverter to the EG4 battery (or any battery, even 12V car battery or flashlight battery) through a resistor or light bulb and measure voltage? Curious whether it does charge up, proving "continuity" isn't a direct short.

 

[Shimmy]

To have shorted input would mean the inverter couldn't function at all. Either never tested at the factory, or blown after test?

To have no continuity out of the box sounds like no decoupling capacitors connected directly to battery terminals. Is there a battery breaker in the inverter? Order of operation, as jyoung1 mentions.

I am struggling to wrap my head around this; aren't the capacitors tied across + and - (likely relative to ground)? That shouldn't show continuity with a low voltage continuity checker, would it?

 

[Quattrohead]

Interesting... thats how Signature Solar diagnosed the issue. I got a new inverter sent to me and out of the box i checked for continuiuty right away before i did anything and there was none.

That is not right, you will see the capacitors charging from your meter. Very slowly but it should show a varying resistance.

 

[Hedges]

Capacitors are between battery + and -, likely isolated from ground.
They would show continuity, because capacitors are a dead short until enough current flows to charge them up to voltage of source.

A battery breaker in inverter probably isolates capacitors from battery terminals. Lithium battery on first then inverter breaker on would present a surge. Inverter breaker on then lithium battery would let a precharge circuit in battery try to do its job. An external precharge circuit (resistor across switch) between battery and inverter could allow manual precharge. Precharge would have problems if inverter powered on automatically and drew significant current.

With lithium battery powering new inverter (so a bit of current is flowing and everything is turned on), try precharging "faulty" inverter through a resistor or light bulb, then connecting hard to battery if voltage does come up. They try running the inverter.

 

[sten]

That is not right, you will see the capacitors charging from your meter. Very slowly but it should show a varying resistance.

Caps charging with nothing hooked up? just the inverter itself?