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Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

I realize this thread is a bit old, but after having similar issues with my 6848s, I may have an answer--and I think it is the Midnite Classic. I don't know if you can get a schneider mppt 60/150 to try, but the xw 6848 does not like charge controllers without the xanbus...when they don't read what they expect from the charge controller they reject incoming voltage--borrow one of the schneider mppts if possible, connect with xanbus/combox if you can get that too, with all appropriate settings (custom battery, no equalization, etc.), and I'll bet it starts up.

Additional note, Signature Solar is amazing--anyone who says otherwise hasn't dealt with the other companies out there or is just a "solar Karen". I've never encountered a more helpful, well informed, and responsive company especially in the solar realm (and I've been through a few).
 
hmerchen said:
I realize this thread is a bit old, but after having similar issues with my 6848s, I may have an answer--and I think it is the Midnite Classic. I don't know if you can get a schneider mppt 60/150 to try, but the xw 6848 does not like charge controllers without the xanbus...when they don't read what they expect from the charge controller they reject incoming voltage--borrow one of the schneider mppts if possible, connect with xanbus/combox if you can get that too, with all appropriate settings (custom battery, no equalization, etc.), and I'll bet it starts up.
Click to expand...
This is off topic, but I'm looking to add a charge controller to my XW 6848. This is the first I have heard any reports of compatibility issues with other charge controllers.
 
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hmerchen said:
I realize this thread is a bit old, but after having similar issues with my 6848s, I may have an answer--and I think it is the Midnite Classic. I don't know if you can get a schneider mppt 60/150 to try, but the xw 6848 does not like charge controllers without the xanbus...when they don't read what they expect from the charge controller they reject incoming voltage--borrow one of the schneider mppts if possible, connect with xanbus/combox if you can get that too, with all appropriate settings (custom battery, no equalization, etc.), and I'll bet it starts up.

Additional note, Signature Solar is amazing--anyone who says otherwise hasn't dealt with the other companies out there or is just a "solar Karen". I've never encountered a more helpful, well informed, and responsive company especially in the solar realm (and I've been through a few).
Click to expand...
If that was the issue, why would my system power up with three other (Crown, DIscover, SOK) different batteries? It was only the lifepower EG4 that was problematic. My inverter starting issue had nothing to do with the charge controllers but i appreciate your suggestion.

Glad you had a good experience with Signature Solar but they handled my situation poorly time after time. In my case i found them to be one of the worst companies i have ever dealt with. If you take a quick look around, you will find many others have had similar issues. Companies like Midnite, Discover, Schneider, Current Connected (SOK), E-Fortress, Sol-Ark etc all have excellent customer service every time i have had to deal with them.
 
Koldsimer said:
If that was the issue, why would my system power up with three other (Crown, DIscover, SOK) different batteries? It was only the lifepower EG4 that was problematic. My inverter starting issue had nothing to do with the charge controllers but i appreciate your suggestion.

Glad you had a good experience with Signature Solar but they handled my situation poorly time after time. In my case i found them to be one of the worst companies i have ever dealt with. If you take a quick look around, you will find many others have had similar issues. Companies like Midnite, Discover, Schneider, Current Connected (SOK), E-Fortress, Sol-Ark etc all have excellent customer service every time i have had to deal with them.
Click to expand...
Try it. Seriously. Then critique away...
 
Koldsimer said:
Had you bothered to read the 50 page plus thread you are participating in you would know that i did try it. Multiple times. Seriously.
Click to expand...
Signature solar is great, has been patient, and has worked to assist (even on this thread)--and based on this response, I highly doubt they were the problem in your case.
 
hmerchen said:
Signature solar is great, has been patient, and has worked to assist (even on this thread)--and based on this response, I highly doubt they were the problem in your case.
Click to expand...
The actual problem is their battery. They as a company made it worse because they dropped the ball multiple times while 'trying' to help me.

Take a look around this forum, the lifepower 4 battery has LOTS of issues with the bms.

I see you own 12 of them, and i am glad they work great for you. You can be a Signature Solar fanboy and call people names all you want. Just understand, there lots of people that have spent thousands of dollars on a product that did not live up to the promises made by the company that sells them. We didn't pay to be their beta testers.
 
Koldsimer said:
The actual problem is their battery. They as a company made it worse because they dropped the ball multiple times while 'trying' to help me.

Take a look around this forum, the lifepower 4 battery has LOTS of issues with the bms.

I see you own 12 of them, and i am glad they work great for you. You can be a Signature Solar fanboy and call people names all you want. Just understand, there lots of people that have spent thousands of dollars on a product that did not live up to the promises made by the company that sells them. We didn't pay to be their beta testers.
Click to expand...
I offered a suggestion based on what worked for my system. I encouraged you to try it before rejecting the idea outright. It was meant with a rude, condescending reply. I would guess that historical attempts by much more astute professionals than I to assist you have met with similar responses, no matter their intent to assist. I am proudly a Signature Solar fanboy. No question.
 
400bird said:
This is off topic, but I'm looking to add a charge controller to my XW 6849. This is the first I have heard any reports of compatibility issues with other charge controllers.
Click to expand...
The charge controllers had nothing to do with the inverter not starting. Hmerchin and his suggestion have nothing to do with the topic being discussed here. I'm confident you can add any appropriate charger without issue.
 
hmerchen said:
I offered a suggestion based on what worked for my system. I encouraged you to try it before rejecting the idea outright. It was meant with a rude, condescending reply. I would guess that historical attempts by much more astute professionals than I to assist you have met with similar responses, no matter their intent to assist. I am proudly a Signature Solar fanboy. No question.
Click to expand...
I tried your suggestion and it didn't work. Sorry my response hurt your feelings. I would expect someone calling people 'Karen" in their first post wouldn't be such a delicate snowflake. Guess i was wrong.
 
hmerchen said:
I realize this thread is a bit old, but after having similar issues with my 6848s, I may have an answer--and I think it is the Midnite Classic. I don't know if you can get a schneider mppt 60/150 to try, but the xw 6848 does not like charge controllers without the xanbus...when they don't read what they expect from the charge controller they reject incoming voltage--borrow one of the schneider mppts if possible, connect with xanbus/combox if you can get that too, with all appropriate settings (custom battery, no equalization, etc.), and I'll bet it starts up.
Click to expand...
Interesting theory, but I believe one of @Koldsimer trouble shooting steps was to disconnect the charge controller from the system. He could only start the system when the charge controller was producing energy. (I know the second part was true for multiple pepole having issues.)

Logically that experience makes sense, as the charge controller is going to maintain voltage on the DC bus even if the battery's pre-charge resistor is limiting current... if it has energy coming into it.

Maybe an easier way to test your theory would be to disconnect the Xanbus on a 60/150 and try starting the 6848 without any solar contribution.
 
If it were the charge controller not producing, then you would not be able to turn the battery breaker off and back on at night.

MidNite sells a lot of xw pro 6848 inverters in pre-wired systems using a Classic or two each and we do not see any issues starting the XW, even when using power supplies limited to 20 amps and no solar running at all.

boB
 
SpongeboB Sinewave said:
If it were the charge controller not producing, then you would not be able to turn the battery breaker off and back on at night.

MidNite sells a lot of XW inverters (pre-wired systems) using a Classic and we do not see any issues starting these, even when using power supplies limited to 20 amps and no solar running at all.

boB
Click to expand...
Thanks for the confirmation, the theory that there was some incompatibility between a Schneider inverter and a separate 3rd party charge controller causing both a precharge (edit to add a word) failure and somehow do the impossible and "reject" the voltage probably doesn't hold water.
 
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SpongeboB Sinewave said:
If it were the charge controller not producing, then you would not be able to turn the battery breaker off and back on at night.

MidNite sells a lot of xw pro 6848 inverters in pre-wired systems using a Classic or two each and we do not see any issues starting the XW, even when using power supplies limited to 20 amps and no solar running at all.

boB
Click to expand...
That's exactly the setup i am running. Two of your classic 150's all wired in a midnite box. Nice and clean, i love how it looks and works. Ive installed two of these systems in the last three years and they have worked flawlessly, in all conditions. Except when trying to use the EG4 lifepower batteries.
 
But it does start up during the day when solar is available ?

Does it keep running then into the night ? Just can't turn it on without the solar ?
 
SpongeboB Sinewave said:
But it does start up during the day when solar is available ?

Does it keep running then into the night ? Just can't turn it on without the solar ?
Click to expand...
The problem i encountered was only 'fixed' by using the dc power source from the scc's to turn on the xw6848, then i was able to bring the batteries inline. Under no circumstances would the lifepower 4 batteries work on their own to power up the inverter. They would experience an immediate voltage drop into the 30's, quickly followed by the alarm light. It's a well known issue with these particular batteries and certain inverters.

BTW, when i was trying to get this figured out, I called Midnite a couple times and they always had knowledgeable, friendly people there to help.
 
hmerchen said:
I realize this thread is a bit old, but after having similar issues with my 6848s, I may have an answer--and I think it is the Midnite Classic. I don't know if you can get a schneider mppt 60/150 to try, but the xw 6848 does not like charge controllers without the xanbus...when they don't read what they expect from the charge controller they reject incoming voltage
Click to expand...

The XW inverter has no method to "reject incoming voltage" , the DC power rail is hardwired to the battery connection, and the amount of capacitance on the input rails is massive.

The xw-mppt60-150 internally is powered on the battery-side, if there isn't a battery voltage it is not part of the equation.

The xw-mppt60-150 works just fine without Xanbus connected, communications are helpful to synchronize charging between multiple sources or share a BTS, but charging algorithms are based on battery voltage. In this case, if there is no battery voltage, the charge controllers are unpowered.

The XW was design at a time when individual system components were common, where there were no BMS controllers, battery's were fuse/breaker protected and didn't have "start-up" requirements. The XW has been out for close to 16 years now, which few manufactures can make that claim, only one longer I recall is boBs / Outback FX series.

This was part of my home lab circa 2006, the XW mppt prototype, XW-6048 and Outback FX

Home Lab 2006 4.jpg
 
Solar Guppy said:
The XW was design at a time when individual system components were common, where there were no BMS controllers, battery's were fuse/breaker protected and didn't have "start-up" requirements. The XW has been out for close to 16 years now, which few manufactures can make that claim, only one longer I recall is boBs / Outback FX series.
Click to expand...

Manual for MSTE's Sunny Island Charger 40 says, "© 2004 to 2008 SMA Solar Technology AG. All rights reserved"
That would make it 18 years.


This FX inverter/charger manual is copyright 2008, 14 years ago. Maybe there is an older revision.


MX60 charger, copyright 2004: (I bought one around that timeframe.)

 
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