The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[Hedges]

I just came across a great analogy:
The long term effect of seat belt laws is that more than 98% of all fatalities among car drivers and passengers were wearing seatbelts.
Think about it....

Not 98%, just the majority.
90% of people wear seat belts. 47% of deaths are the unbelted.
that's 10% make up 47% of deaths, 90% make up 53% of deaths.
The unbelted are 8x more likely to die. Wearing seat belts is 88% effective in preventing death.

Seat Belts | NHTSA

Seatbelts significantly increases your chance of survival during a crash. Seatbelts are the safest choice drivers & passengers can make while driving.

www.nhtsa.gov

From other sources, it costs $30,000 in seat belts for every life saved.
Air bags aren't nearly as cost effective. And 3/4 of the lives airbags save are those without seatbelts.

But like the point you make, we could get to where majority of covid deaths are the vaccinated. Doesn't mean unvaccinated is safer; many more would have died without the vaccine.

 

[Mia]

I'm a little on the fence concerning Ivermectin.

If people don't think Ivermectin was the reason for the radical reduction of cases and death from Covid in India .... what does explain that?
All I can find in articles from people who oppose it is .... there is no proof.
In India, It's use as a polylactic for family members of a person with Covid ... and for early treatment coincides with the rapid decline. Areas where people used Ivermectin had radically different results than those that didn't.
Are we too much in the weeds about things that don't matter in the discussion about Ivermectin?

If the choice is between NO early treatment ..... and no polylactic ....and a known safe round of Ivermectin that might help fight Covid ... what is the downside to using Ivermectin? It's not like the people who are using is are not getting a different early treatment that might help more.
The most frustrating part of this for me has been the TOTAL lack of early treatment protocols and in some cases, the total politicization of the science.

I agree… I don’t see why it’s not utilized if people want to use it, as personally I think we should also be open to having as many tools in the tool box as possible to choose from … I’d also like to see more testing sites made available again… as that’s one of the few tools we really have for monitoring the level of the virus in the community… well that and effluent monitoring which hasn’t really taken off for surveillance monitoring of the community levels of this virus (and other public health diseases and such) … and better yet, improved testing capacity made available because it has never been enough especially during times when it’s surging … contact tracing and infection control when results take greater than 24 let alone 48 hours to be turned around especially with this Delta variant, is much too long, so anything beyond that, we may as well forget it… one may never be able to tamp it down otherwise …. Regarding India, it is interesting that they now have a lower transmissibility issue there…but… it killed so very many people there, and it also exposed many people there as a result of the very low vax rate…. so they may have become inoculated naturally -*which as we know meant losing so very many Indian lifes* - Many also believe that the numbers of infected individuals and resulting deaths has been significantly undercounted in India …it will be very interesting to see what happens in the next few months in regards to India and if immunity there also begins to wane and if they too will have to deal with yet subsequent waves as a result…. or if they have inadvertently reached a level of herd immunity that holds up over time, with a combination of natural immunity combined with protection providing by those also immunized via vaccines and boosters….

 

[ArthurEld]

many more would have died without the vaccine.

"the-vaccinated-are-more-likely-to-catch-covid"

So, I guess you are saying that the vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid. But the vaccinated are less likely to die from Covid.

 

[Cdkipp]

This was released two days ago by the Spectrum Health Hospital System in West Michigan.

 

[Hedges]

"the-vaccinated-are-more-likely-to-catch-covid"

So, I guess you are saying that the vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid. But the vaccinated are less likely to die from Covid.

Yes.

The UK paper I linked showed the vaccinated were more likely to catch covid.
CDC paper said the opposite.

Particular situation reported in UK was something greater than 60% vaccinated, but 98% of population had antibodies. That meant 94% of the unvaccinated had prior infection, so naturally acquired immunity. That exposure may also have been more recent than the vaccination. Also, it would have killed off the weaker ones, leaving a stronger remaining population. At any rate, it appeared to show infection acquired immunity was stronger than vaccine acquired immunity.

Most reports have shown some rate of breakthrough infection and considerable waning after 6 months of antibodies & effectiveness against infection, but still significant protection against serious illness, hospitalization, and death.

 

[Cdkipp]

CDC data through mid-September show the unvaccinated have a 6x higher rate of getting Covid and a 12x higher risk of dying. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

 

[Hedges]

This was released two days ago by the Spectrum Health Hospital System in West Michigan.

60% of population vaccinated.
Your link showed 15% of hospitalized, 6% of ICU, 5% on ventilators were vaccinated.
If I've done the math correctly, 90%, 96%, 97% effectiveness respectively.
I think I'll wear the seat belt.

404

www.michigan.gov

 

[time2roll]

60% of population vaccinated.
Your link showed 15% of hospitalized, 6% of ICU, 5% on ventilators were vaccinated.
If I've done the math correctly, 90%, 96%, 97% effectiveness respectively.
I think I'll wear the seat belt.

404

www.michigan.gov

Right and if they all used the ivermectin cocktail (airbag) at the first sign of collision with covid maybe the efficacy would be similar. Need some crash testing to verify. In the mean time my seatbelt is on.

 

[Cdkipp]

Right and if they all used the ivermectin cocktail (airbag) at the first sign of collision with covid maybe the efficacy would be similar. Need some crash testing to verify. In the mean time my seatbelt is on.

From what I have been reading the entire white-tailed deer population needs to be on Ivermectin. Maybe one of the Ivermectin zealots on this page can go lay it out with salt licks.

 

[BMcL]

From what I have been reading the entire white-tailed deer population needs to be on Ivermectin. Maybe one of the Ivermectin zealots on this page can go lay it out with salt licks.

All you know is what google tells you. You haven't read one medical journal entry supporting ivermectin.

 

[Cdkipp]

I have read medical journal articles including the American Journal of Therapeutics upon which you rely. I also have cited several medical journals and I have read all of those articles. Your accusation that I rely on google is odd. I am not citing blogs like you do. Would it be better if I walked to the library and read the journals? I am pretty sure they read the same with they are in electronic format or on paper.

 

[Cdkipp]

The American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APhA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP), the NIH, World Health Organization, CDC, FDA, Merck and the health organization of every western country oppose the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of Covid. That is all any reasonable person needs to know. If a cheap generic works, like dexamethasone, these same organizations will wholeheartedly recommend the medicine. There is no big conspiracy. Large-scale trials of Ivermectin are ongoing. If something changes I will be the first to admit it. Prozac is actually showing potential. The fact that generics are being used completely undermines the argument that Big Pharma is blocking generics proven beneficial.

 

[Mia]

Yes.

The UK paper I linked showed the vaccinated were more likely to catch covid.
CDC paper said the opposite.

Particular situation reported in UK was something greater than 60% vaccinated, but 98% of population had antibodies. That meant 94% of the unvaccinated had prior infection, so naturally acquired immunity. That exposure may also have been more recent than the vaccination. Also, it would have killed off the weaker ones, leaving a stronger remaining population. At any rate, it appeared to show infection acquired immunity was stronger than vaccine acquired immunity.

Most reports have shown some rate of breakthrough infection and considerable waning after 6 months of antibodies & effectiveness against infection, but still significant protection against serious illness, hospitalization, and death.

So that means if one wants the natural immunity over the vaccine provided immunity one is ok with letting others die as well as willing to risk a chronic illness and ones own death and health and the health of loved ones. In contrast, many have opted for the vaccine because they don’t want to risk the deaths and health of others and to find out whether their immune system will be better than average or not.…

 

[Mia]

From what I have been reading the entire white-tailed deer population needs to be on Ivermectin. Maybe one of the Ivermectin zealots on this page can go lay it out with salt licks.

While I presume this was said in jest, there may be some benefit to trialing such in wild and livestock mammal populations.

 

[Cdkipp]

While I presume this was said in jest, there may be some benefit to trialing such in wild and livestock mammal populations.

Yes, the big cats in Zoos are having trouble also. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/13/us/snow-leopards-covid-nebraska-zoo.html

 

[Mia]

That's why it's effective; it blocks the replication of the virus. Many doctors think zinc intensifies the effect. It's usually given in a cocktail of ivermectin (24 to 36 mg), zinc and doxycycline.
Early treatment works best but it's also been given to people on ventilators and they have recovered.

After experimental Covid-19 treatment, 80-year-old woman thankful to be home

As Judith Smentkiewicz fought for her life in a local hospital last month, she had no idea that her struggle with Covid-19 was the subject of a heated court battle

buffalonews.com

I wouldn’t be a good candidate probably as I’ve negatively reacted to doxy when given for more than a short dose of it

 

[Mia]

I think children are less likely to contribute to the spread.

I don’t know about that… children are a pool of unvaccinated and therefore unprotected demographic…. They also are an age group contracting it and therefore a reservoir for spreading it … not just migrant children, but all children…

 

[Mia]

Well get on the phone and tell them it's coming.

Then I guess it will come down to their families need to advocate for a judge to rule in their favor to have that option … which is sadly the reality of living in a litigious state and country

 

[BMcL]

The American Medical Association (AMA), American Pharmacists Association (APhA), and American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (ASHP), the NIH, World Health Organization, CDC, FDA, Merck and the health organization of every western country oppose the use of Ivermectin in the treatment of Covid. That is all any reasonable person (useful idiot) needs to know.

When a drug as worthless as remdesivir is FDA approved and ivermectin is not, and the only difference is remdesivir is highly profitable, then that smacks of corruption.
With billions of dollars at stake, it's easy to see how these agencies could be bought off. And a bonus is government control of the population !
Former FDA commissioners are all over the board rooms of big pharmaceutical companies:
Before being appointed the 23rd Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in May 2017, Dr. Scott Gottlieb was entangled in an unprecedented web of close ties to Big Pharma. And less than three months after his April 5, 2019, departure from the agency, Gottlieb firmly reestablished his financial links to the pharmaceutical industry when Pfizer — one of the world’s largest drug companies with more than $53 billion in revenue in 2018 — on June 27 announced his appointment to the company’s board of directors.

 

[BMcL]

I wouldn’t be a good candidate probably as I’ve negatively reacted to doxy when given for more than a short dose of it

Doxy is just one antibiotic they can mix zithromax or many others depending on your history.