Where is @Will Prowse?

[Hedges]

That is exactly why I was suggesting you break away from the rest of the YouTube pack and start doing more detailed analysis of Inverters and how they perform. Just looking at the effieceny curves of "typical" Inverter designs has got me really wondering at what Wattage are these Inverters efficiency being rated at. How effiecent is a an LV6548, Growatt or Sol-Ark at full load versus 40% load? That is one of those values you can see instantly with that Fluke Meter and a bunch of heaters for loads. Then we have the whole THD question. Lots of new Angles to test the equipment you already have.

But would that appeal to the demographic of majority of Will's audience?
Bolt things together and have a functioning system, to appeal to many users.
As soon as you get into losses vs. load, engineering aspects, it will go over the heads of many and only appeal to a few.

Even among engineers, getting into a different discipline or different area of their discipline, a presenter will lose many of them. There is a market for deep technical presentations in various fields, but viewers select themselves for interest in that. Science shows on TV deliver a bit of content with lots of animated graphics for appeal.

Efficiency - no-load power consumption of inverter may be most important, especially for mobile systems. A percentage of used power being lost is one thing, but no-load consumption requires bigger battery and more panels just to keep system running so it can power loads when desired. Video could have graphic of pie charts superimposed showing how much of a battery and how much of a PV array is wasted on that, vs. available for user's loads.

THD - what could matter is how well inverter handles poor power-factor loads. LF inverter may be better for inductive motor loads. Many loads have rectifier/capacitor front end, e.g. power adapters and non PF-corrected motor drives for fridge or A/C (apparently European models are better in that regard than U.S.) Try operating inverters heavily loaded with such products.

 

[Will Prowse]

My latest 48V system was the most fun I have had in the last year on the channel. And I am trying to think of ways to improve that system. It seems perfect. I am running 13kW daily intermittently daily (two ac's and the ev charger) at high efficiency, and not a single hiccup. The system has been running 24/7 since I built it, and I just hit 2 mega Watt hours. I love it. Especially for the price versus a sol ark or victron. I still have not been able to kill a MPP or any other all in one unit. They just keep on working. I have destroyed inverters in the past too, but these units have not given me issues.

I think modular 12V systems that can fit in a van (think milk crate system on steroids) may help a lot of people. I saw some van life systems last week and people may need more help in that area. Most of the youtube videos covering van systems are super boring and there is zero new information being posted on this topic. Might be fun to think of a new way to build those systems.

 

[Will Prowse]

But would that appeal to the demographic of majority of Will's audience?
Bolt things together and have a functioning system, to appeal to many users.
As soon as you get into losses vs. load, engineering aspects, it will go over the heads of many and only appeal to a few.

Even among engineers, getting into a different discipline or different area of their discipline, a presenter will lose many of them. There is a market for deep technical presentations in various fields, but viewers select themselves for interest in that. Science shows on TV deliver a bit of content with lots of animated graphics for appeal.

Efficiency - no-load power consumption of inverter may be most important, especially for mobile systems. A percentage of used power being lost is one thing, but no-load consumption requires bigger battery and more panels just to keep system running so it can power loads when desired. Video could have graphic of pie charts superimposed showing how much of a battery and how much of a PV array is wasted on that, vs. available for user's loads.

THD - what could matter is how well inverter handles poor power-factor loads. LF inverter may be better for inductive motor loads. Many loads have rectifier/capacitor front end, e.g. power adapters and non PF-corrected motor drives for fridge or A/C (apparently European models are better in that regard than U.S.) Try operating inverters heavily loaded with such products.

Absolutely! You hit the nail on the head here.

 

[Koldsimer]

@Will Prowse I would love to see a video highlighting the differences in the pre-charge function amongst the rack mount style batteries. Things like resistor sizing, ways to initiate the feature, how to bypass, duration of pre-charge etc. would be good to know and have documented. The hard part would be getting all the different batteries together but i believe you have that covered!

 

[SacRV]

I'm always present here or checking the channel. Trying to think of a new fun direction to take with the videos. Have done a few hundreds videos now and I feel like I'm repeating myself. I actually filmed some videos this month, but didn't post them because they were not very useful.

Will, I think a real world from design-to-completion trailer install would be helpful to new viewers.

 

[Cyanlite]

My fun videos get downvoted. Or if I share opinions or entertain. Technically, instructional videos get the upvotes, and I'm here to appeal to the masses. Need to find the next thing that can really help people. I don't want to entertain. I want to help people. Without wasting their time.

I'd love to see a series of videos on a full-blown DIY solar set up that fully passes electrical inspections, and your experience going through the inspection process. Everything from the permit application to ground mounting to engineering stamping to dealing with the inspector on-site.

To my knowledge, no other YouTuber has done anything like that. Other smaller projects like installing a Reliance generator transfer switch to work with a Growatt/EG4 inverter.

And I do get your point about being repetitive. I've seen so many YT'ers out there doing weekly tear downs of the latest Chins-clone battery from Amazon.

 

[robby]

But would that appeal to the demographic of majority of Will's audience?
Bolt things together and have a functioning system, to appeal to many users.
As soon as you get into losses vs. load, engineering aspects, it will go over the heads of many and only appeal to a few.

Even among engineers, getting into a different discipline or different area of their discipline, a presenter will lose many of them. There is a market for deep technical presentations in various fields, but viewers select themselves for interest in that. Science shows on TV deliver a bit of content with lots of animated graphics for appeal.

Efficiency - no-load power consumption of inverter may be most important, especially for mobile systems. A percentage of used power being lost is one thing, but no-load consumption requires bigger battery and more panels just to keep system running so it can power loads when desired. Video could have graphic of pie charts superimposed showing how much of a battery and how much of a PV array is wasted on that, vs. available for user's loads.

THD - what could matter is how well inverter handles poor power-factor loads. LF inverter may be better for inductive motor loads. Many loads have rectifier/capacitor front end, e.g. power adapters and non PF-corrected motor drives for fridge or A/C (apparently European models are better in that regard than U.S.) Try operating inverters heavily loaded with such products.

Yes it would appeal to them once you start doing the Videos and producing Data and put it into context.
It does not matter how technically inclined the Audience is. They will all quickly know that high THD is bad and you can see from his previous videos the numbers from other Inverters. They know that they want good efficiency, especially at the load levels their house is typically consuming power at. Well here is an Inverter that delivers great efficiency right at the levels your using. It's all about taking the educating level of the Audience up by another notch, if not your just going to be doing the same stuff over and over and the Truth is it really tells you nothing about the Quality of the product you are buying. Yes Growatts produce the same power as other Inverters but it was not until I looked at a more technically inclined video that I saw that the Output Voltage had major issues with it. You did not need to be a rocket scientist to understand something was wrong because the guy compared it to the Grid and it was obvious that the power was distorted and Glitching.

Idle consumption is definitely a measurement that is needed but that is already being done. I think efficiency is just as important on large systems as small mobile systems. an extra 5% loss in efficiency can be a real blow if your trying to figure out how to get off grid or how many batteries do you really need to achieve your goal.

It's up to Will, he can keep wiring up Inverters and cracking open batteries or move the technical level up several notches.

 

[FilterGuy]

Wow!! I started the thread as just a fun little question but it has turned into an interesting discussion of possible videos for Will. I like it.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

My latest 48V system was the most fun I have had in the last year on the channel. And I am trying to think of ways to improve that system. It seems perfect. I am running 13kW daily intermittently daily (two ac's and the ev charger) at high efficiency, and not a single hiccup. The system has been running 24/7 since I built it, and I just hit 2 mega Watt hours. I love it. Especially for the price versus a sol ark or victron. I still have not been able to kill a MPP or any other all in one unit. They just keep on working. I have destroyed inverters in the past too, but these units have not given me issues.

I think modular 12V systems that can fit in a van (think milk crate system on steroids) may help a lot of people. I saw some van life systems last week and people may need more help in that area. Most of the youtube videos covering van systems are super boring and there is zero new information being posted on this topic. Might be fun to think of a new way to build those systems.

Does your system have Rapid Shutdown per NEC 2017? It would be interesting to see what is required to make that work with your EG4 setup. I think you need both the TS4 on the panel AND a pair of DC contactors at the inverter to de-energize the wires. The inverters are not equipped with the contractor or a breaker, like the Sol-Ark is.

 

[Supervstech]

Does your system have Rapid Shutdown per NEC 2017? It would be interesting to see what is required to make that work with your EG4 setup. I think you need both the TS4 on the panel AND a pair of DC contactors at the inverter to de-energize the wires. The inverters are not equipped with the contractor or a breaker, like the Sol-Ark is.

Only required if panels are residence roof mounted.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Only required if panels are residence roof mounted.

I thought Will's system was on his roof. No?

 

[robby]

I thought Will's system was on his roof. No?

Nope, not the ones you see in videos used for testing Inverters etc.
He does have panels on the roof for his home system, but that is never used for testing purposes.

 

[cs1234]

I thought Will's system was on his roof. No?

I thought he has some panels on his roof, an installed to code grid tie system installed by somebody else.

Then the stuff he does for our benefit on youtube are just sitting on his driveway in his fenced in area? Not that I have a problem with it. I only wish I could get away with it.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I know! A new how to DIY build your very own inverter from nothing but copper wire, and old horseshoe, a cardboard box, and duct tape!

 

[Will Prowse]

I thought he has some panels on his roof, an installed to code grid tie system installed by somebody else.

Then the stuff he does for our benefit on youtube are just sitting on his driveway in his fenced in area? Not that I have a problem with it. I only wish I could get away with it.

Tesla solar installed my grid tie system. I do not like installing panels, especially with the health issues I have with my feet from when I was disabled. I would love to build ground mount arrays but I don't have room on my property. Still trying to find someone to sell ballast ground mount system, but no one has come to market yet.

My panels are on the ground so the fire safety codes don't apply. I have them secured with a stainless steel cable. Very easy to swap panels out for testing. The insulation of PV wire is thick, and my wires are on concrete, so it is good to go.

I personally want to stick to Offgrid lifepo4 systems. I just don't care about grid tie, and there's thousands of companies installing it now for cheap. Not very diy friendly with the permits either.

And I prefer independence from the grid.

Low voltage DC seems not to be covered much (if at all) in NEC. Pretty unfortunate. I was expecting something that could help me design my systems. Not really. Just a bunch of ac wiring configurations for various applications and environments. Not sure why people reference it when it serves little use in large battery systems being charged with solar. Even the grounding recommendations for mobile systems is non existent.

Typically I use marine low voltage DC recommendations, such as ABYC. It is a million times more useful than NEC.

 

[Will Prowse]

I think this certification program would prove more useful than memorizing the NEC or being an electrician. Low voltage DC is different and needs to be understood thoroughly.

https://abycinc.org/page/Certifications

 

[Will Prowse]

Does your system have Rapid Shutdown per NEC 2017? It would be interesting to see what is required to make that work with your EG4 setup. I think you need both the TS4 on the panel AND a pair of DC contactors at the inverter to de-energize the wires. The inverters are not equipped with the contractor or a breaker, like the Sol-Ark is.

I have a PV voltage DC rated breaker in an enclosure for disconnect. Mounted to non combustible material. Works well, but not necessary. Just nice to turn off mppt that way to reduce fan noise in shop when I am filming.

 

[cs1234]

Still trying to find someone to sell ballast ground mount system, but no one has come to market yet.

My panels are on the ground so the fire safety codes don't apply. I have them secured with a stainless steel cable. Very easy to swap panels out for testing. The insulation of PV wire is thick, and my wires are on concrete, so it is good to go.

I personally want to stick to Offgrid lifepo4 systems. I just don't care about grid tie, and there's thousands of companies installing it now for cheap. Not very diy friendly with the permits either.

I'm with you on the sticking to offgrid lifepo4 systems. Use the grid to charge the batteries maybe, otherwise keep it separate.

I hadn't thought of securing them with a stainless steel cable, I like it, wouldn't meet any type of ground mount code requirement, but if anchored securely it would probably make for a nice kite that even Thomas Edison would be proud of!

Have you considered something like this for ballasted mount? Super easy to install, keeps them low to the ground, I want to try some, but I'm too lazy to order anything off a website other than Amazon.

Bucket full of rocks that supposedly passes code inspections

 

[JoeHam]

Have you considered something like this for ballasted mount? Super easy to install, keeps them low to the ground, I want to try some, but I'm too lazy to order anything off a website other than Amazon.

Bucket full of rocks that supposedly passes code inspections

I saw something similar at San Tan Solar a while back but I think it was filled with water.

Almost as easy to come by as rocks. ?

 

[ncsolarelectric]

Tesla solar installed my grid tie system. I do not like installing panels, especially with the health issues I have with my feet from when I was disabled. I would love to build ground mount arrays but I don't have room on my property. Still trying to find someone to sell ballast ground mount system, but no one has come to market yet.

My panels are on the ground so the fire safety codes don't apply. I have them secured with a stainless steel cable. Very easy to swap panels out for testing. The insulation of PV wire is thick, and my wires are on concrete, so it is good to go.

I personally want to stick to Offgrid lifepo4 systems. I just don't care about grid tie, and there's thousands of companies installing it now for cheap. Not very diy friendly with the permits either.

And I prefer independence from the grid.

Low voltage DC seems not to be covered much (if at all) in NEC. Pretty unfortunate. I was expecting something that could help me design my systems. Not really. Just a bunch of ac wiring configurations for various applications and environments. Not sure why people reference it when it serves little use in large battery systems being charged with solar. Even the grounding recommendations for mobile systems is non existent.

Typically I use marine low voltage DC recommendations, such as ABYC. It is a million times more useful than NEC.

I have a ballasted ground mount. I used a Unirac RM10 ballasted roof mount on the ground. It works well, but the panels need to be blown off or washed after I mow the lawn because it's low to the ground.

I also have an idea for a taller ballasted ground mount using 6-ft long, 250-lb, concrete parking curbs. They are $35 each. Set them about 4-ft apart and use an IronRidge Tilt-leg kit and the XR100 rails. The tilt-legs can be bolted directly to the parking curb through the existing rebar holes. It takes 9 parking stops, 9 tilt-leg kits, and 4 x 17-ft rails to mount 10 panels at around 20-deg tilt. This is what I'll be doing for my next one. I estimate it to be right around $100/panel, which is cheap for a ground mount.

 

[cs1234]

@ncsolarelectric I like your ground mount system and have considered it, but they aren't as cute as a plastic bucket full of rocks.

Couldn't you raise your existing ground mount system by just setting them on top of the parking curbs you mention, to solve/reduce the mowing problem?

I do like your idea of securing the tilt leg kits to parking curb, but I don't think that will pass inspection the same way that the buckets might. The buckets are supposedly a structurally approved item already approved for solar use without any modification needed. Your curbs would be sturdy as heck, and certainly aren't going anywhere, but they might demand some sort of site structural audit/study to determine whether a tornado or hurricane would get them or not.

Things like inspections and site studies are entirely up to your area though, they might be nice as pie where you are (might not even require them), and mean jackals where I am.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

@ncsolarelectric I like your ground mount system and have considered it, but they aren't as cute as a plastic bucket full of rocks.

Couldn't you raise your existing ground mount system by just setting them on top of the parking curbs you mention, to solve/reduce the mowing problem?

I do like your idea of securing the tilt leg kits to parking curb, but I don't think that will pass inspection the same way that the buckets might. The buckets are supposedly a structurally approved item already approved for solar use without any modification needed. Your curbs would be sturdy as heck, and certainly aren't going anywhere, but they might demand some sort of site structural audit/study to determine whether a tornado or hurricane would get them or not.

Things like inspections and site studies are entirely up to your area though, they might be nice as pie where you are (might not even require them), and mean jackals where I am.

I have considered building a pier of cinder blocks under each rack to lift them up 12", but the wife said it it's an eyesore. So I'm trying to come up with a more attractive and functional ground mount without digging footings.

Regarding structure, I can do what I want on my property in NC as long as I get the permit. I can get all the uplift and downforce calculations from IronRidge, to show that the uplift forces are only 750lbs and my ballast is over 2000 lbs. I don't see why an S.E. wouldn't approve it. I've done numerous ballasted systems like this on landfills, with much larger racks of panels. Again, IronRidge can provide all the calculations and I'm sure if I want to, I can pay their engineer to stamp it if my county required it, but they don't.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

I saw this one on Youtube, and I really like it. It's the same racking as I mentioned for the Parking curbs but he used footings and 4x6s. I think it looks great though, but I wouldn't want to dig all those holes or mix the concrete.

 

[cs1234]

I have considered building a pier of cinder blocks under each rack to lift them up 12", but the wife said it it's an eyesore. So I'm trying to come up with a more attractive and functional ground mount without digging footings.

Regarding structure, I can do what I want on my property in NC as long as I get the permit. I can get all the uplift and downforce calculations from IronRidge, to show that the uplift forces are only 750lbs and my ballast is over 2000 lbs. I don't see why an S.E. wouldn't approve it. I've done numerous ballasted systems like this on landfills, with much larger racks of panels. Again, IronRidge can provide all the calculations and I'm sure if I want to, I can pay their engineer to stamp it if my county required it, but they don't.

Can't say I disagree with her, but I love eyesores. My wife buys all kinds of cute items to decorate the house with. I buy cables and electronics to collect dust bunnies.

If the permits can be done fast and pretty much rubber stamped, that's what I'm looking for. I want something out of the box ready to go super fast and easy with minimal time spent on paperwork on the government permitting end. Doesn't get much simpler than filling a bucket full of rocks.

Unfortunately residential customers are extremely price sensitive, especially with how things are going now, they need some sort of solar by the panel kit that allows for starting cheap and building up as you go.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

That's why I recommend microinverters.