Will blasts Chargery

[Ampster]

For that much money ... what does it do the Chargery doesn't?

I have not reviewed the Chargery and as far as I know the Chargery was not availble when I purchase the Orion Jr. The Orion in rock solid and the bigger version is used in a lot of EV conversions. It has a lot more features than are necessary for a stationary application. The current shunt is external and the LVC, HVD and safety shutoffs are just low current 12 volt signals designed to operate Large Amperage Contactors, SSRs or relays.

 

[Ampster]

PLUS if they could push their app to a computer screen then ppl would not care about the little 8-bit Atari "pong" screen ...

And I am either a couch potato or traveling and when my Orion craps out I will give Chargery a look and those features will probably be available on my phone by then.

 

[Craig]

I'm sorry but apparently you did not get the memo that the words - ICGOGO will ever be mentioned again ... so we have a guy out here from Louisiana that most of us can't understand speaking that cajun French-stuff -- but he makes these little dolls that he puts ppls names on he does not like and then drops them into the well head - so "SOLARDAD" - this is your first warning ...

I call them IcNoNo

 

[Steve_S]

I think more appropriately DECODED as... I See No... NOooooo !

 

[Walef]

That looks like a nice unit. It uses dual-coil latching relays. I wonder what it costs. For the chargery, you would need two (The per-charge can be a regular relay.)

The development company REC directs in his HP on business partners.
One business partner, providing whole BMS kits for marine application, offers as well some solid latching relays with a detailed spec.

 

[Walef]

Yes, victron remote control requires an SSR. Should have stated that, oops. Absolutely true

Very cool that samlex works with direct 12V as signal

There are a lot of application in the DIY LiFePo4 scene for RV's which uses SSR and they work out reliable.
However, 100Amp seems to be max, as far as I know.

Faktor Shop | Solid State Relay SSR

Relais SSR Schütz - Solid State Relay SSR. Faktor Shop

www.faktor.de

High current relays get used with two coils to split inrush- and holding current.
Holding current of 130mA/12V DC is a much lower number compared to the relay used on the chargery BMS.
Used on marine and boat application.

Relais, Schütz, SSR

DC Relais, Contactors, Schütze, SSRs, EV200, Tyco, Kilovac, Crydom

www.nothnagel-marine.de

 

[Pacer]

Walef- those TE EVE200AAANA relays are what I picked up for this application. Once everything is in hand and tested, I will report back with some results.

 

[Cal]

You don't want your contacts to weld when you have a load that you need to disconnect for safety or to protect the pack.

Had a similar problem I had to rectify. A vehicle mounted machine gun had the trigger connected to a relay coil. The relay contacts engaged a solenoid. During rapid single shot mode the contacts get so hot that they fuse together and all of a sudden the gun fires continuously! Fixed it by installing a capacitor / diode / resistor across the contacts. The inductive current goes through the capacitor, rather than arcing across the contacts.

 

[ghostwriter66]

I call them IcNoNo

Interesting fact ... in Chinese ICGOGO translates to "Hey lets take the Westerners money and then send them pieces of crap that no where looks like anything on the website or continue to lie to them that its "enroute""... or something like that .. my Chinese is a little rusty (like the stuff ICGOGO sends out -- .. see what i did there .. pretty funny -- LOL) ...

 

[FilterGuy]

A vehicle mounted machine gun had the trigger connected to a relay coil.

Remind me not to piss you off!!!

 

[grizzzman]

Remind me not to piss you off!!!

LOL!

 

[Bob B]

Had a similar problem I had to rectify. A vehicle mounted machine gun had the trigger connected to a relay coil. The relay contacts engaged a solenoid. During rapid single shot mode the contacts get so hot that they fuse together and all of a sudden the gun fires continuously! Fixed it by installing a capacitor / diode / resistor across the contacts. The inductive current goes through the capacitor, rather than arcing across the contacts.

? I hope there weren't a lot of rounds left when that happened ..... I had a 22 rifle go full auto on me when a part broke and it was kinda fun ..... but I don't think I would want to be hanging onto something like a 50 Cal when that happened .... whatever you do ... don't let go!!!

 

[Cal]

It was 50 cal

 

[grizzzman]

Walef- those TE EVE200AAANA relays are what I picked up for this application. Once everything is in hand and tested, I will report back with some results.

That's what I am using now. At 12 volts they pull .13 amps each however the voltage drop engaging both relays at the same time caused the charge relay to drop the control signal down to 2.2 volts. My fix was to install a micro mini relay the energize the contactor. My relays are used off ebay. I need to further testing but a trip to Topaz mountain was more important. I look forward to seeing what you find. I think "used" may well be the issue.

 

[John Frum]

It was 50 cal

Were you on convoy duty somewhere?

 

[Cal]

Remind me not to piss you off!!!

You have nothing to worry about. You like Chargery.

 

[Cal]

Were you on convoy duty somewhere?

Actually I took over the design right after it went into production. My testing (design validation) found the problem.

 

[Steve_S]

CHARGERY UPDATE INFO: (quazi leak)

OK, I know people are curious as to what is going to happen as a result of Will's Video, this thread, the compiled suggestions, quirks, issues.
I have just had a long exchange with Jason and he even gave me their "planning" documents BUT I cannot share the details within because it is a Work In Progress and so thigs can turn out differently.

With that said, I can say this... Version 4 of the Firmware will Kick Butt ! (it will take some dev time, can't say how long) YES Jason has Heard & Listened (a rarity in the 21st century indeed). There will be interface changes (like current calibration), new default settings, simplified menus and some expanded ones. A few new capabilities are being pondered and a couple which have me quite excited.... The RS232 interface will get more info as well... even some limited graphical tweaking... Manuals will have to be updated of course ... oh boy, I am looking forward to that... fortunately it will be much easier & quicker this time around.

BlueTooth capability is something that has been on the table but has proven to be a tad more complicated than anticipated. A few options are being considered but it is on the table and they are working on how best to accommodate it.

Chargery SSR... I gotta say WOW ! I can't get into details because they are still mixing the electronic stew as it were but these go beyond what I anticipated & expected. Two variants are being tested (uni-directional & bidirectional). Unlike a "simple relay", these come in as a "Smart SSR" with things that make them perfect for energy storage systems. I KNOW this is a nasty Tease, sorry about that folks but if they pull it, off the way they seem to be going, these will be like nothing seen here before, quite a leap forward IMO.

WHEN ? I know. we all want to know but I have no clue. Some things won't be hard but others are more complicated. MY GUESS is we will see the firmware first and that will take some time, maybe a month, maybe more. They are testing their SSR's internally and giving them hard thrashing and tweaking but these are more complicated because of everything involved, so when is ??? Other electronics (yes, they are also cooking other goodies) will come available over the next few months as dev is completed. BlueTooth is being worked on but this is not just the software side but hardware interfacing too so this is open....

I wish I could give hard details and timelines but can't. At least they heard & listened and are acting on it to improve the product line and better serve the clients needs. That is more than many companies would bother with to be honest and I personally find that very encouraging. It also reinforces my choice of going with Chargery for my BMS' and for making this forum aware of Chargery which I introduced to this forum on Dec.21, 2019 and then followed up with the Chargery BMS w/ Low Temp Cutoff thread on January 8th.

Hope this answers some questions & ponderances
Steve

 

[Heap64]

Sounds great Steve!

 

[Will Prowse]

CHARGERY UPDATE INFO: (quazi leak)

OK, I know people are curious as to what is going to happen as a result of Will's Video, this thread, the compiled suggestions, quirks, issues.
I have just had a long exchange with Jason and he even gave me their "planning" documents BUT I cannot share the details within because it is a Work In Progress and so thigs can turn out differently.

With that said, I can say this... Version 4 of the Firmware will Kick Butt ! (it will take some dev time, can't say how long) YES Jason has Heard & Listened (a rarity in the 21st century indeed). There will be interface changes (like current calibration), new default settings, simplified menus and some expanded ones. A few new capabilities are being pondered and a couple which have me quite excited.... The RS232 interface will get more info as well... even some limited graphical tweaking... Manuals will have to be updated of course ... oh boy, I am looking forward to that... fortunately it will be much easier & quicker this time around.

BlueTooth capability is something that has been on the table but has proven to be a tad more complicated than anticipated. A few options are being considered but it is on the table and they are working on how best to accommodate it.

Chargery SSR... I gotta say WOW ! I can't get into details because they are still mixing the electronic stew as it were but these go beyond what I anticipated & expected. Two variants are being tested (uni-directional & bidirectional). Unlike a "simple relay", these come in as a "Smart SSR" with things that make them perfect for energy storage systems. I KNOW this is a nasty Tease, sorry about that folks but if they pull it, off the way they seem to be going, these will be like nothing seen here before, quite a leap forward IMO.

WHEN ? I know. we all want to know but I have no clue. Some things won't be hard but others are more complicated. MY GUESS is we will see the firmware first and that will take some time, maybe a month, maybe more. They are testing their SSR's internally and giving them hard thrashing and tweaking but these are more complicated because of everything involved, so when is ??? Other electronics (yes, they are also cooking other goodies) will come available over the next few months as dev is completed. BlueTooth is being worked on but this is not just the software side but hardware interfacing too so this is open....

I wish I could give hard details and timelines but can't. At least they heard & listened and are acting on it to improve the product line and better serve the clients needs. That is more than many companies would bother with to be honest and I personally find that very encouraging. It also reinforces my choice of going with Chargery for my BMS' and for making this forum aware of Chargery which I introduced to this forum on Dec.21, 2019 and then followed up with the Chargery BMS w/ Low Temp Cutoff thread on January 8th.

Hope this answers some questions & ponderances
Steve

Awesome!!! This is why I make my videos, so that the manufacturers can make changes. I will have to revisit the chargery when the update is released. Good to hear.

 

[jafo]

Awesome!!! This is why I make my videos, so that the manufacturers can make changes. I will have to revisit the chargery when the update is released. Good to hear.

Great job Will and Steve_S. Will for pointing it out and explaining it layman's terms and Steve for funneling it up. I'm a beginner at all this, but you guys make me want to expand more with confidence that if I encounter issues I can bring them here for a solution. Looking more forward to future updates for the firmware upgrades. Thanks guys!

 

[FilterGuy]

Chargery SSR... I gotta say WOW ! I can't get into details because they are still mixing the electronic stew as it were but these go beyond what I anticipated & expected. Two variants are being tested (uni-directional & bidirectional). Unlike a "simple relay", these come in as a "Smart SSR" with things that make them perfect for energy storage systems.

@Steve_S
Your comment about the bi-directional SSR reminded of something.

One of the things that has baffled me about the chargery, is that it seems to always require two different relays/SSRs. One for charge and one for discharge. (Is that correct?). For many cases this is good. In fact, the separate signals makes me interested in the chargery for designs I would not otherwise use it for. However, there are cases, such as an all in one, where it looks like you have to have two relays where one would be fine. Is that on the list of possible updates?

 

[Craig]

@Steve_S
Your comment about the bi-directional SSR reminded of something.

One of the things that has baffled me about the chargery, is that it seems to always require two different relays/SSRs. One for charge and one for discharge. (Is that correct?). For many cases this is good. In fact, the separate signals makes me interested in the chargery for designs I would not otherwise use it for. However, there are cases, such as an all in one, where it looks like you have to have two relays where one would be fine. Is that on the list of possible updates?

Seems like this easily could be fixed by software. If not the simple relay board will work as well. I'm helping someone with 4 BYD packs and 4 BMS make it work with only 2 relays total one for charge and one for discharge.

The thing about making a common port system and an all in one. Is if HVD hapoens via BMS there is now no way to discharge the battery through the All in one. Or conversely with a LVD situation. That is why I feel cutting off AC out and PV in will work best with the All in ones.

 

[FilterGuy]

That is why I feel cutting off AC out and PV in will work best with the All in ones.

That is an interesting approach.

Cutting AC out will not stop whatever parasitic 'idle' drain the AIO has so the battery would continue to be drained (all be it slower). If the inverter has a low power sleep mode this can be dramatically reduced but It seems like another level of defense is needed. If the user is there and the lights suddenly goes out, they can go check and take corrective action before it is a problem (manual intervention can be the next level of defense). However, if the system is in a place that is not constantly used/monitored by the user it could drain and damage the battery.

 

[Craig]

That is an interesting approach.

Cutting AC out will not stop whatever parasitic 'idle' drain the AIO has so the battery would continue to be drained (all be it slower). If the inverter has a low power sleep mode this can be dramatically reduced but It seems like another level of defense is needed. If the user is there and the lights suddenly goes out, they can go check and take corrective action before it is a problem (manual intervention can be the next level of defense). However, if the system is in a place that is not constantly used/monitored by the user it could drain and damage the battery.

Yes very true and in a no sun for extended period this could be a problem. I would suggest a cutoff voltage that allows a reasonable period of time for the Inverter to run in standby mode as a remedy. Normally if you reach LVD you would presumably be able to have the Solar charge the battery within 24 hours.

It seems there is no simple solution to the problem only managed trade offs. Even with other BMS there are issues of some sort.