YEEE HAAA….FINALLY ….

[EastTexCowboy]

My issue exactly too,
I have the dryer on the solar, but not the double oven, since I would need to figure out a way that both are never on together on the solar.
I wonder about a relay that would switch over the oven to Grid if the Dryer is on. ie if the dryer is on the oven will automatically connect to grid, if the dryer is off the oven will automatically connect to solar.
Like you, I am just being patient, and will just wait to add the oven when I expand the inverters for more solar capacity.

In a long term outage I would like a way to put both on solar, even if I had to manage usage. But for now, neither one of them uses that much over the course of a month so it's just not worth it. I'll probably move the dryer when I upgrade but I may never move the ovens. POCO has to eat too, ya know.

 

[OffGridForGood]

POCO has to eat too, ya know.

HA HA HA!
Yeah, those poor poor utilities have such a hard life,
now that ETC is making his own energy!
I thought about a dedicated transfer switch - allowing selection of either the dryer OR the oven to connect to the solar one only at a time.
Then I thought about how annoyed my spouse might get, when she wants to use the oven but has to go turn the switch from "Dryer" to "Oven" in another room,..figured this was not a good idea and tossed it.
(maybe I was more concerned about back-lash than inconvenience but I am not admitting to anything!)

 

[Gavin Stone]

This is awesome. That’s one of the things I like about this forum. Most local people I chat with about this stuff could care less. They’d rather just stay on the grid. “Because it’s always worked”.

Dryer and oven together can be a real drain. We definitely still have to time their usage accordingly. It’s a bit of a dance deciding which to use sometimes for us. It’s gotten easier though. Plus, the the befits of this type of lifestyle outweighs the hassle as far as I’m concerned.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

My issue exactly too,
I have the dryer on the solar, but not the double oven, since I would need to figure out a way that both are never on together on the solar.
I wonder about a relay that would switch over the oven to Grid if the Dryer is on. ie if the dryer is on the oven will automatically connect to grid, if the dryer is off the oven will automatically connect to solar.
Like you, I am just being patient, and will just wait to add the oven when I expand the inverters for more solar capacity.

Or use battery powered zero export grid tie inverters or hybrid inverter that will cover any load up to its max output and at the same time the grid supplies any power needed over what the inverter is supplying. Then it doesn’t matter which loads are on at any time. Family of 4 and almost zero out my power usage every month

 

[OffGridForGood]

“Because it’s always worked”.

Those are the ones that worry me.

 

[JRH]

Those are the ones that worry me.

They will be the ones herded up first…and led to the chop house..
uhhh … do I need to explain that better for the younger crowd..?

 

[JRH]

They will be the ones herded up first…and led to the chop house..
uhhh … do I need to explain that better for the younger crowd..?

Hey if they worry ya. Understand why…your right…

 

[EastTexCowboy]

This is awesome. That’s one of the things I like about this forum. Most local people I chat with about this stuff could care less. They’d rather just stay on the grid. “Because it’s always worked”.

I have to dial it down whenever anyone visits us or if I'm just having a conversation with someone. As soon as I get past anything basic like, "We run most of the house on solar" their eyes start glazing over. This forum has been a lifesaver and sometimes sanity saver (sane being a relative term).

I'm going to build one of the carts like in Will's video for my daughter and her husband, then I think they'll get it. They do get it enough that they would like to have it but he has no interest in trying to build it himself and y'all all know the story on hiring someone to do it. So maybe I'm wasting my time but the ice storm last year knocked them out for three or four days and they couldn't keep the genny running so she really perked up when I asked her if she would like to have a portable battery system that could be charged by the grid or by solar. I'll probably end up building a system for them someday.

Back in 2020 I started talking about installing solar once I retired. Frequently someone would ask me how much solar was I planning to install. I always had the same answer - as much as I can afford. If I can run the whole house that would be great but I doubt I'll ever accomplish that. Three years later and I'm pretty much there. I'm still a little amazed every time I think about it.

I appreciate the diversity on the forum. Young people like you, grey haired like me, serious electricians and electrical engineers, people who just have the desire and smarts and work ethic to figure it out, and everything in between. A few screwballs too but at least you and I are normal. Although sometimes I wonder about you ...

 

[Crowz]

Yeah, I know what you are saying...I had to make a plan to "Sell it to her" so I waited for the right evening, installed the motion sensor light in the laundry room.
Then said 'hey honey can I help out by taking this haper to the laundry room, it looks pretty heavy' she naturally agrees sure carry that to the laundry, as we walk into the room the lights turn themselves on automatically, no putting down the haper to switch on the light. She is surprised, says ' hey what turned on the lights? you didn't touch a thing"
show her how the sensor turns the lights on just walking into the room, and automatically turns them off again after so many minutes. Ok I had alterior motive (I don't have to run around and turn off lights), yeah, but it is all in the delivery people.
Next day she says - hey would one of those light sensors work in the kitchen? what about the bathroom? yeah so I am a victom of my own success.

About the same thing I did. Its of the opposite side of the issue now. Wife walks in a room at her parents house or elsewhere and stands there waving her arms and the rest of the family is looking at her like she has spazzed out. She now thinks all lights will work like that instinctively

 

[Zwy]

I have to dial it down whenever anyone visits us or if I'm just having a conversation with someone. As soon as I get past anything basic like, "We run most of the house on solar" their eyes start glazing over. This forum has been a lifesaver and sometimes sanity saver (sane being a relative term).I

I put on a large party every weekend around July 4th of well over 100 people. I'm waiting to see how many will get the big picture when they are here.

I'm going to build one of the carts like in Will's video for my daughter and her husband, then I think they'll get it. They do get it enough that they would like to have it but he has no interest in trying to build it himself and y'all all know the story on hiring someone to do it. So maybe I'm wasting my time but the ice storm last year knocked them out for three or four days and they couldn't keep the genny running so she really perked up when I asked her if she would like to have a portable battery system that could be charged by the grid or by solar. I'll probably end up building a system for them someday.

He wants you to do all the work for him. Maybe your daughter needs a different model of husband?

Back in 2020 I started talking about installing solar once I retired. Frequently someone would ask me how much solar was I planning to install. I always had the same answer - as much as I can afford. If I can run the whole house that would be great but I doubt I'll ever accomplish that. Three years later and I'm pretty much there. I'm still a little amazed every time I think about it.

Did my truck camper and it was so slick I had to do the house.......

I appreciate the diversity on the forum. Young people like you, grey haired like me, serious electricians and electrical engineers, people who just have the desire and smarts and work ethic to figure it out, and everything in between. A few screwballs too but at least you and I are normal. Although sometimes I wonder about you ...

View attachment 154905

That is interesting because I wonder about you.......

 

[Gavin Stone]

I wonder about all of us! It’s funny. If people are obsessed with something they find comfort in talking with a group of likeminded obsessed individuals.

But I figure it beats making ships in a bottle. It can be an expensive hobby. But you get more than just satisfaction from your labors.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

I put on a large party every weekend around July 4th of well over 100 people. I'm waiting to see how many will get the big picture when they are here.

He wants you to do all the work for him. Maybe your daughter needs a different model of husband?


Did my truck camper and it was so slick I had to do the house.......

That is interesting because I wonder about you.......

We used to do huge parties like that in the fall, mostly for clients and their staff. 100 to 150 people. I'm glad that's over. It was a lot of work. But yeah, let us know how they react.

He's a pretty decent guy and owns a successful collision repair business, but he knows nothing about electricity and doesn't much want to learn. She could have done a lot worse. I do have a ding on my F350. I may make him fix that if I build them a cart!

I may have slightly exaggerated my mental stability, yeah. But I'm in pretty good company.

 

[OffGridForGood]

But I'm in pretty good company.

If I didn't have all you folks to talk with about this stuff I would be in the shop talking to myself and the dog!

 

[Wes975]

If I didn't have all you folks to talk with about this stuff I would be in the shop talking to myself and the dog!

Let me know how that talk with the dog goes - this is all get - good or bad. Hanging out here keeps my face a bit drier.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Mostly I just get that 'I am listening" look from the dog, I am pretty sure she is just waiting for a key word like "walk" "up" or "Cookie?" but she is a patient listener! LOL.

 

[Hedges]

I have the dryer on the solar, but not the double oven, since I would need to figure out a way that both are never on together on the solar.
I wonder about a relay that would switch over the oven to Grid if the Dryer is on. ie if the dryer is on the oven will automatically connect to grid, if the dryer is off the oven will automatically connect to solar.

Oven will go full blast heating up, then cycle. Could just shut off dryer element temporarily.
I'd worry about transfer relay to grid, because it could draw and arc and "make before break".

Dryer fed L1/N/L2 (and hopefully G; I finally got mine working with GFCI), timer and motor are 120V on L1 only. Heater is L1-L2.
Simply having a relay lift L2 would interrupt the heater but leave dryer running.

You could drive the coil from L after oven thermostat, to N. Or a CT with amplifier.

Although, turning off dryer heater could confuse the dryness sensor of some cycles. I've only tested this in my head, not in practice.

 

[OffGridForGood]

All good ideas,
I try to be sure nothing I do with the solar makes my wifes' routine harder or less convenient, she has been so supportive of the move to solar especially after a four day outage (for everyone but us) during the first winter. We sat down and discussed a system to ensure the Dryer and Oven were not needed at the same time, she was up for that, but by next year we will have enough solar (collection, storage and inverter) to supply both the Dryer Well pump and Oven at once. That may be the easiest way to go, while eliminating any disruptions.
{the grid tie - zero export is a good idea for many, but not for my situation, just a utility thing in my location, and the whole motivation for the solar was the frequent utility outages (we had two in the last three days, last night for over 8 hours). As my wife pointed out, we could connect the ovens now, and the Dryer later, but Iotawatt shows the dryer as the greater power-hog per month. We can wait for the ovens.}

 

[EastTexCowboy]

All good ideas,
I try to be sure nothing I do with the solar makes my wifes' routine harder or less convenient, she has been so supportive of the move to solar especially after a four day outage (for everyone but us) during the first winter. We sat down and discussed a system to ensure the Dryer and Oven were not needed at the same time, she was up for that, but by next year we will have enough solar (collection, storage and inverter) to supply both the Dryer Well pump and Oven at once. That may be the easiest way to go, while eliminating any disruptions.
{the grid tie - zero export is a good idea for many, but not for my situation, just a utility thing in my location, and the whole motivation for the solar was the frequent utility outages (we had two in the last three days, last night for over 8 hours). As my wife pointed out, we could connect the ovens now, and the Dryer later, but Iotawatt shows the dryer as the greater power-hog per month. We can wait for the ovens.}

Sounds like a good plan. If you don't want to have grid assist you could always do a chargeverter. Then it's just another appliance plugged in as far as the evil empire is concerned. Top off the batteries when you know you're in for a bunch of cloudy days, etc. Just a thought. Still need the upgrades though! ?

 

[Hedges]

Wiring 240V resistive heating elements for 120V draws 1/2 current, 1/4 power.
Takes 4 times as long to come up to temperature, the operates with thermostat on a greater percentage of the time, so not 4x as long to dry.

What I've seen is motor and controls operate between L1 and N, element between L1 and L2. Haven't messed with oven but may be same.
Try capping L2 feeding outlet, jumper L2 to N in socket. If nothing turns on, do that with L1 instead.
Make sure oven and dryer get powered with opposite phases.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Wiring 240V resistive heating elements for 120V draws 1/2 current, 1/4 power.
Takes 4 times as long to come up to temperature, the operates with thermostat on a greater percentage of the time, so not 4x as long to dry.

This works for the HWT better than for a Dryer (or Oven) as far as impact on daily routines goes. I don't want to create the impression the solar is "weaker" than utility to run the Dryer for example. A load of laundry in the dryer should be and hour and 15-minutes, say, and if they were suddently change to four hours to dry a load of laundry, that is not going to go over well in my household.
Maybe work for the ovens, since once up to temp it is just cycling. I will think on this one.
I actually run the HWT in the shop next door on this basis, using 120 rather than 240 since it doesn't matter if the time to heat is x 4 or not from normal operation. This is one of the early items that I put on solar back when I first started on this journey, Shop hot water is for hand washing, dishes kinda of stuff, so if it takes a bit longer to heat up so be it, no one has ever noticed I changed it.

 

[Mattb4]

This thread got me to do a search on 120vAC dryers. There are a few out there that might work for a single person or couple from GE or Whirlpool. Several others of rather dubious branding, probably Chinese imports. More expensive versus the 240vAC models and also less capacity. The GE model is: GE DSKP333ECWW and the Whirlpool model is: LDR3822PQ.

​

 

[OffGridForGood]

This thread got me to do a search on 120vAC dryers. There are a few out there that might work for a single person or couple from GE or Whirlpool. Several others of rather dubious branding, probably Chinese imports. More expensive versus the 240vAC models and also less capacity. The GE model is: GE DSKP333ECWW and the Whirlpool model is: LDR3822PQ.

​

I like Hedges idea of changing the dryer plug to adapt a standard dryer to 120, and if I was the only one using the dryer I would set it up and see how things run. There are good reasons to keep large electrical-loads on 240 - ie they put balanced load (L1&L2) on the inverter system.
We considered just running the dryer during mornings or after supper each day, to avoid the potential over-load of dryer and oven on at the same time, and my spouse was 'up for it' however I could envision this being less than ideal in some cases, and I didn't want her to start feeling the solar transisition had significant inconveniences attached to it. I may push up the timetable on increasing the system capacity this year instead of next sping. A third MPP6048 is already on order (back up) I guess I will just hang it on the wall once it arrives. LOL.

 

[Hedges]

Dryer on 120V isn't so bad. Thermostat is on a longer percentage of the time, so drying time isn't extended that much.
During a 240V dry cycle, graph your inverter power output and determine on/off percentage. Determine how much longer (if any) assuming 120V on 100% of the time.

A simple toggle switch could change dryer between 120V and 240V operation. But maybe don't switch under load; it isn't just breaking an arc going to open, it is switching load from L1 to N, so an arc would be bad.

A plug-in adapter, 240V plug to 240V socket, but socket wired for 120V, would also do it. I'm making one right now to test Sunny Boy 120V operation.

 

[Hedges]

This thread got me to do a search on 120vAC dryers. There are a few out there that might work for a single person or couple from GE or Whirlpool. Several others of rather dubious branding, probably Chinese imports. More expensive versus the 240vAC models and also less capacity. The GE model is: GE DSKP333ECWW and the Whirlpool model is: LDR3822PQ.

Just convert a 240V dryer, dime a dozen used.
May be a little effort to properly separate N from G. I got that done with 3-wire 240V to make 4-wire and not trip GFCI.

If buying 120V, consider condensing (even more expensive) if it looks like it will save power. Multiple types (air cooled, water cooled maybe only if washer/dryer in one, heat pump.)

 

[OffGridForGood]

Dryer on 120V isn't so bad. Thermostat is on a longer percentage of the time, so drying time isn't extended that much.
During a 240V dry cycle, graph your inverter power output and determine on/off percentage. Determine how much longer (if any) assuming 120V on 100% of the time.

A simple toggle switch could change dryer between 120V and 240V operation. But maybe don't switch under load; it isn't just breaking an arc going to open, it is switching load from L1 to N, so an arc would be bad.

A plug-in adapter, 240V plug to 240V socket, but socket wired for 120V, would also do it. I'm making one right now to test Sunny Boy 120V operation.

You had to go and post this on a saturday, when I have some time (but other projects planned) looking at the supply shelf, yes I have all the required parts just sitting here tempting me to try it...I have a love-hate relationship with the forum...this will be on my mind until I try it...