Assuming you pay $0.12/KWh, can you ever come out ahead going full offgrid?

[Nobodybusiness]

That's an impressive motor.

Pretty massive but the price reflect that also..

 

[SparkyJJO]

Pretty massive but the price reflect that also..

Definitely would not be doing the conversion for the money savings.

 

[EastTexCowboy]

OH CRAP! EV Conversions ! Li-Ions and terrawatts and Batteries ! oh my!!
I can SEE the fusion of two great (expensive) hobbies melding together into one massive (Divorce-Level) Mega-addiction-compulsive-spending-spree!
Lock out my paypal, hide the credit cards, and change the banking passwords...bestill my heart.

Yeah, this addiction just keeps escalating. I've been looking at electric side by side utvs for three or four years. I haven't found anything that trips my trigger yet. They all seem to be afterthoughts to their gas and deisel lines. I hadn't thought about doing a conversion but maybe that's in the cards. I've got a 2020 Kawasaki Mule we use on the ranch and it works fine I suppose, but for how we use it electric would be great. Dammit. I gotta stop paying attention to y'all. I have enough to do already.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

That's an impressive motor.

Thought it might be easier than trying to sync 3 warp 11s

 

[629658]

10 Cents a Kwh here. Would take foreeeevvvvvvver to pay back.

You would never pay it back.

You're losing money if you spend 25k on solar VS just like putting that into T bills and seeing which one nets you more at the end of the 20 years.

That would definitely be solar. T bills are a negative rate of return with inflation so they are costing your 2-3% per year just to own. However low solar is still returning on investment. In 20 yrs T bills will have lost you at least 60%. Of your original investment. Not even mentioning reliable power in grid down situations as well as the estimated power costs in 20 yrs. Will not be $0.10 per kWh guaranteed.

 

[Hedges]

Buy when there is blood in the streets?

I do regret not buying, in 2009, that 3 bedroom house, 3 car garage, on half an acre with palm trees overlooking silicon valley for $480k.
At the time I thought, "nice place to live in, but I already have one (it was a comparable for my refi), and it wouldn't be profitable as a rental."

Right now when PV looks like break-even at best, and we're in a period of hyper inflation, might be the last best time to buy.

In California, natural gas has skyrocketed (if not elsewhere in the US). Maybe it comes down, maybe not. If not, electricity costs more. If dollar is losing value, imported Chinese PV panels cost more.

 

[629658]

Who’s climbing roofs?
Lots of assumptions there.

I guess you just work 24/7 and never have any free time or you make so much per hour that couldn’t possibly entertain the idea of doing anything yourself.

Almost all of us on here are professionals.

This is a DIY forum not a “I’m so rich, I throw money at my problems” forum.

Also the thread in a DIY forum is can you come out ahead at .12 kw?

I guess if you pay everyone to do your work for you then you can’t come out ahead.

Settle down boys I think what he is saying is that his income is high enough that it makes more financial sense for him to hire the work done and continue working than taking the time off the job and diy.

 

[Danke]

Right now when PV looks like break-even at best, and we're in a period of hyper inflation, might be the last best time to buy.

In California, natural gas has skyrocketed (if not elsewhere in the US). Maybe it comes down, maybe not. If not, electricity costs more. If dollar is losing value, imported Chinese PV panels cost more.

I was just wondering about peoples opinion on buying batteries now. I have purchased enough, but was thinking of adding some. Do you think prices will go down or up in the future for batteries?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I was just wondering about peoples opinion on buying batteries now. I have purchased enough, but was thinking of adding some. Do you think prices will go down or up in the future for batteries?

If you live in the USA then I would convert all my excess funds into tangible assets.

Inflation is just killing savings now and it only looks to get worse.

 

[timselectric]

What’s your thought on the trend WRT battery cost? Seems like the main stream articles I read, consensus is battery prices will keep going down. And possibly energy density going up.

Agreed

 

[Checkthisout]

Agreed

Where is the major cost of the battery?

Their prices can only go down if there is continously improvements in manufacturing efficiency.

If the major cost of the battery are the raw materials they are composed of, then the price will only go up.

 

[Checkthisout]

That would definitely be solar. T bills are a negative rate of return with inflation so they are costing your 2-3% per year just to own. However low solar is still returning on investment. In 20 yrs T bills will have lost you at least 60%. Of your original investment. Not even mentioning reliable power in grid down situations as well as the estimated power costs in 20 yrs. Will not be $0.10 per kWh guaranteed.

Are we paying for our solar up front and then assuming we never need batteries?

I think batteries change equation quite a bit.

 

[Hedges]

I was just wondering about peoples opinion on buying batteries now. I have purchased enough, but was thinking of adding some. Do you think prices will go down or up in the future for batteries?

How does our price for reject LiFePO4 batteries compare to price of grade A used for vehicles in China?
If significantly lower, higher demand for grade B and improved yield would raise prices.

Are we paying for our solar up front and then assuming we never need batteries?

I think batteries change equation quite a bit.

I think of batteries as consumable.
I prefer to buy as little as possible. Mostly I use grid as battery. But batteries have reached the point where they are cheaper than the difference between pricing tiers, and between import/export rates of newer NEM programs.

If you live in the USA then I would convert all my excess funds into tangible assets.

Inflation is just killing savings now and it only looks to get worse.

The buy/sell spread of physical assets can be large. (Look up what coin shops charge/pay for silver as an extreme example.)
Financial assets can be very efficiently transacted, in whatever quantity you wish. Fraction of a percent and appears as cash in your account as seconds.
If the financial world collapses that is a different story, where preppers etc. come in.
I agree inflation is a big problem, need to find optimal way to ride it.
In the past, I found that automatic purchasing of index funds worked well. But there are tax implications, like when they go down (you lose money) and long time holders liquidate, so gains are reported to the IRS for your holdings. (you do have ways to get rid of those taxable paper gains.)

Rather than all excess funds, maybe just pre-buy the tangible assets you anticipate needing.
Couple years ago, my sister recommended doing any needed work on the house. I need a roof, but wasn't ready yet. This has likely doubled my cost.

 

[Zwy]

Are we paying for our solar up front and then assuming we never need batteries?

I think batteries change equation quite a bit.

Yes and No. My 54Kw bank (complete with Batrium BMS and everything to build it) comes to $11K. I get a 30% tax credit so my cost is $7700. If one gets 6000 cycles, that comes to $1.283 per cycle. Divide that by the actual usable capacity of 90% which is 48.6Kw and it comes to $0.0264 per Kw. Whether this holds true remains to be seen. However it is a baseline of fully cycling. If one was to only use 80% usable capacity, it may reach 6000 cycles or more. Same with 70%. Holding cells near full SOC can shorten cycle life. It's all a balance.

So is the major cost of my system the batteries given it should be less than $0.03? Actually it isn't. It's part of the system but I spent more than $11K on my array/mount, wiring, inverters, panels and transfer switch. I could have sourced some items at less cost but I also wanted a system that met my needs and lasted long term.

 

[629658]

Are we paying for our solar up front and then assuming we never need batteries?

I think batteries change equation quite a bit.

IMO the dollar is dying a slow death and its value will continue to decline. BRICS is just getting started and it will only increase the downward pressure on the dollar. Supply lines have been tight and will continue to weaken. It’s going to be like everything else buy it while you can. In a normal economic environment your assumptions would be correct. We are in uncharted waters and uncertain times. Won’t matter if batteries hit all time lows if they aren’t available. China relations will continue to degrade. One piece of bad news and embargoes may appear. Anti China sentiment is on the rise and it will affect everything. Money in savings accounts are a waste and my advice is to get what you can in your possession. Get it out of the stock market, keep your money in a safe place in your control and if you own crypto for Pete’s sake get it out of the exchanges. Buckle up buttercups we are going for a wide ride. I’m buying all I can afford.

 

[rodrick]

Yeah, this addiction just keeps escalating. I've been looking at electric side by side utvs for three or four years. I haven't found anything that trips my trigger yet. They all seem to be afterthoughts to their gas and deisel lines. I hadn't thought about doing a conversion but maybe that's in the cards. I've got a 2020 Kawasaki Mule we use on the ranch and it works fine I suppose, but for how we use it electric would be great. Dammit. I gotta stop paying attention to y'all. I have enough to do already.

Golf cart and John Deere gator that’s what we use, the golf cart gets the most usage

 

[SparkyJJO]

We would like to buy a place with a lot more acreage but real estate prices are still too high, and couple that with higher interest rates now and it just isn't looking feasible.

I'll admit though that part of me wants more space simply because it would give me a reason to buy more solar stuff and convert a zero turn to LFP. Because why not use the sun to power the mower? Less work and maintenance long term than a gas one. And if the apocalypse happens, I can at least still have a neat lawn

 

[629658]

How does our price for reject LiFePO4 batteries compare to price of grade A used for vehicles in China?
If significantly lower, higher demand for grade B and improved yield would raise prices.



I think of batteries as consumable.
I prefer to buy as little as possible. Mostly I use grid as battery. But batteries have reached the point where they are cheaper than the difference between pricing tiers, and between import/export rates of newer NEM programs.



The buy/sell spread of physical assets can be large. (Look up what coin shops charge/pay for silver as an extreme example.)
Financial assets can be very efficiently transacted, in whatever quantity you wish. Fraction of a percent and appears as cash in your account as seconds.
If the financial world collapses that is a different story, where preppers etc. come in.
I agree inflation is a big problem, need to find optimal way to ride it.
In the past, I found that automatic purchasing of index funds worked well. But there are tax implications, like when they go down (you lose money) and long time holders liquidate, so gains are reported to the IRS for your holdings. (you do have ways to get rid of those taxable paper gains.)

Rather than all excess funds, maybe just pre-buy the tangible assets you anticipate needing.
Couple years ago, my sister recommended doing any needed work on the house. I need a roof, but wasn't ready yet. This has likely doubled my cost.

Yes it has inflation is eating everyone’s lunch. My advice get out of the market for a while. 1 year ago I transferred my 401k out of the market into money market account. Has save me over 35% loss so far. If things improve I’ll get back in. Yes I’m loosing 3-5% due to inflation but I didn’t ride the market down.

 

[SilverbackMP]

IMO the dollar is dying a slow death and its value will continue to decline. BRICS is just getting started and it will only increase the downward pressure on the dollar. Supply lines have been tight and will continue to weaken. It’s going to be like everything else buy it while you can. In a normal economic environment your assumptions would be correct. We are in uncharted waters and uncertain times. Won’t matter if batteries hit all time lows if they aren’t available. China relations will continue to degrade. One piece of bad news and embargoes may appear. Anti China sentiment is on the rise and it will affect everything. Money in savings accounts are a waste and my advice is to get what you can in your possession. Get it out of the stock market, keep your money in a safe place in your control and if you own crypto for Pete’s sake get it out of the exchanges. Buckle up buttercups we are going for a wide ride. I’m buying all I can afford.

My investment philosophy?

Tangibles . Two is one and one is none. Keep expanding infrastructure.

Anything above that goes into rare metals that were made in the fractions of a second before a star went supernova and of what is on earth, mostly resides at the core. And of which have monetary and industrial demand.

 

[AKvalleyguy]

Buckle up buttercups we are going for a wide ride. I’m buying all I can afford.

I was a freight pilot in the late 70's, early 80's. We would typically get approached on the Ramp late at night for side work. So, I was wondering if Red Bud IL is a real place . If you are younger this will make absolutely no sense.

I've been trading in and keeping up with the real estate, financial market, trends and all of that for decades. Was involved way before the .com boom/bust and still in the game. However, in 2020 I felt the attack vectors were too numerous to understand at any sane level. This was probably the intent, to overwhelm with problems and create as many side distractions as possible. Hope, fear, rationality and insanity, all the cards are being played at once.

Buy Batteries! LOL