Poor guy lost his cabin to a fire in MPP charge controller

Ampster said:

I dove into that thread and when he mentioned Tesla modules and a default configuration I suspected the reason was overvolting the batteries. Tesla modules are a unique voltage that do not fit many default settings. The nominal voltage is 22.8 which is easily overvolted on any typical 24 volt default setting.

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I went thru it too, it was a Tesla module and he stated the MPP6048 would not hold the custom settings.

He should have not been using it to charge the Tesla module, it's that simple.

Ampster said:

I also assume no BMS which if set properly could have stopped the disaster before the battery got hot.

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He was asked about a BMS, it seems to have been ignored. When that occurs, the usual correct answer is there wasn't a BMS.

Ampster said:

I do not know for sure that is what happened but I have seen too many reports of Tesla modules being abused to not suspect that was the case.

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After going thru the post, my conclusion is the same. It is a case of someone not knowing what they were doing and not employing proper safety measures including a BMS.

Ampster said:

I did not see any statements that concluded it was the MPP charge controller.

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It is like the original post of this thread, it was insinuated. While I do have some respect for the OP of this thread, the insinuation tarnished that respect.

I'm not defending MPP by any means. But to claim it was the MPP unit that was the cause is not really correct. It is multiple errors I see in the thread on FB. Ignorance on display I guess.

Ampster said:

What a shame.

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Yes, all could have been prevented with much better choices made by the person who installed the system.

On a related matter. I get that tile backer board is pretty fireproof but is it that much more fire proof than sheetrock? EG: Why do people put hardiboard on top of sheetrock? Belts and suspenders? Is sheetrock by itself not adequate?

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Well, everything that physically exists and is matter will transfer heat, so the usual most important factors are how quickly will something conduct heat through to the other side, and what is its auto ignition temperature, if combustible?

By itself, an insulating board is just a delaying tactic. I would say the main function of the hardiboard is to slow the rate of heat transfer to the more combustible structure that is usually behind it, so that hopefully the heat source melts itself open circuit or gives other safety devices time to activate, BEFORE the surface behind the board reaches auto ignition temp. Realistically almost anything BUT batteries, will melt itself to open circuit fairly quickly, and the main question is did it conduct enough heat into a combustible part of the larger structure in that short time, to take the whole thing down in flames. Now if you're talking a large battery bank that's a whole different thing because you can burn a house down with a candle and a battery pack can make a candles worth of heat for.. A WEEK?! No amount of slowing the rate of transfer is going to help if you have a house-battery-powered source of high temperature near a piece of wood. You actually need to break the flow of power to fix that one.

So limiting the flow of heat into your combustibles is pretty much the game. The board can be useful but wouldn't be necessary if we weren't screwing ignition sources directly onto wooden structures. ? And limiting the potential of your battery to contribute to a fire is on a different level than sticking a 1/2" thick anything between that and your house.

I am sorry for this guy..
I’m sure he was as proud and happy about what he built as any of us are/ were/ will be….
but no freedom we ever enjoy lasts very long when too many people start doing it the way most people do things…somewhat slack….. not the skilled ones , but the non- skilled.( the masses)

in general ,home grown work is either Excellent or pretty sloppy at about 20/ 80% respectively … I saw it for a decade working on boats for a living…it’s unreal what many people will do and think it’s acceptable. Rich ,intelligent , smart people…!!!
When not many people do it and you lose someone now and then we call it a an accident .. too bad , that’s a shame?.

when it starts getting popular and ya lose a lot of folks or their nieghbors or ya burn down the whole condo complex ,then here come the people with thier rules and laws and permits and regulations .. with hands out wanting money…
the more accidents we see happen the more it will seriously ramp up in the solar industry… as the money grow for installations fees ,the industry will lobby the politics to remove more and more from the list you are allowed to do…

I don’t know what the answer is .. but it always takes the same path…

I don’t know the timeline either…..

I just know it’s going to quickly get harder to do a DIY as we know it today…

Danke said:

I see your wind generator, but when you gonna show us your solar setup?

View attachment 110601

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I honestly have to give them some extra Credit for building the Kidney shaped swimming pool or Duck Pool.
I thought Red necks detested anything that was not Rectangular.

robby said:

I honestly have to give them some extra Credit for building the Kidney shaped swimming pool or Duck Pool.
I thought Red necks detested anything that was not Square.

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Did you ever see the curves on Elle Mae Clampett..?…

I don't think my charge controller is going to burn its all metal encased.

But anyway the top three causes of residential fires are cooking (50% of all fires), heating equipment (12.5%), and electrical malfunction (6.3%). One in 20 home (5%) home structure fires were started by smoking materials.

An estimated 358,500 home fires occur every year. 50% of these fires start in the kitchen, 7% begin in the bedroom, and 6% are chimney fires, 4% of all residential home fires start in the living room, while 3% start from the laundry room.

None of this adds up to 100% but whatever.

“When you start mandating a fire sprinkler system, you are going to price a lot of people out of these new homes,” said Ned Munoz, vice president of regulatory affairs for the Texas Association of Home Builders, which lobbied heavily for anti-sprinkler legislation."

I guess, you only need one sprinkler in the kitchen near the stove and up to 50% of fires would get squashed.

"State and territory regulators are responsible for electrical safety. Only Victoria mandates an inspection of each installed PV system."

But anyway it makes perfect perfect sense, lets spend lots of money to have the permit gestapo crack down on the DIY solar community over a very very very rare event when just today toasters and stoves are going to start and already have started 100s and 100s of fires.

Yep, sister-in-law nearly burnt down the whole kitchen by forgetting to turn off a pot of oil.

“When you start mandating a fire sprinkler system, you are going to price a lot of people out of these new homes,” said Ned Munoz, vice president of regulatory affairs for the Texas Association of Home Builders, which lobbied heavily for anti-sprinkler legislation."

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"This gravy train is a house of cards and that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Please go away". When i cynically paraphrase him i actually almost believe it.

When i was a teenager me and some friends managed to catch a ceiling on fire by boiling some hot dog weiners until all the water was gone.. nothing on the stove actually caught fire but we managed to heat the ceiling enough to catch flame. I'm guessing the vent hood wasn't running or was on low but i can't remember. Anyway, i considered it sort of an impressive feat!

Vigo said:

"This gravy train is a house of cards and that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. Please go away". When i cynically paraphrase him i actually almost believe it.

When i was a teenager me and some friends managed to catch a ceiling on fire by boiling some hot dog weiners until all the water was gone.. nothing on the stove actually caught fire but we managed to heat the ceiling enough to catch flame. I'm guessing the vent hood wasn't running or was on low but i can't remember. Anyway, i considered it sort of an impressive feat!

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Wow.. defies physics ,but I feel it’s true as no one could make that up….. that just wasnt y’all’s day…I have done similar odd things as a kid… I really can’t explain how they happened.. but they did.
And afterwards my dad beat my ass , all the while shouting , “what the hells wrong with you “ …?
ahhh ,the good ole days…

nc73 said:

I think I will build a solar shed after all....at least if that burns down it's a couple hundred in wood.

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If you build it out of metal you can just start over after you clean up all the ashes

SparkyJJO said:

I'm not worried about the stuff in the basement (concrete block and metal cabinet). I just hope the installers did a good job on my roof!

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Have them mount the panels… you do all the wiring and connecting…No one will do a better job than you ….it ain’t their roof that will burn down, it’s yours….

Mannfamilywoodworks said:

If you build it out of metal you can just start over after you clean up all the ashes

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Exactly … and it far enough away it won’t matter if it burns down…I will just fix it…

chess-equality said:

And I thought LFP was the safest, you can only screw it up if you do crazy or uninformed stuff with it. I have read a few times that somebody "felt safe with LFP under their bed", but now I'm also concerned

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I’m one of those under the bed guy’s… I keep my enemies close. I run fast

Hedges said:

I don't have examples of data, but sheetrock will definitely slow spread of fire. That would be the result of testing and field experience. It is used as fire barrier in home construction, and double-layer between condo/apartment units. 30 minutes per 1/2" layer.

"Solar fire" - may not do as much for a roof fire due to panels/wires, but a fire inside due to wires or batteries, it should hold back for a while.

Sheetrock (or plaster) is also used in fire resistant safes. It decomposes while absorbing energy, releasing the H2O which had been chemically bound in it.

Other aspects of construction include fire blocking, just 2x4 horizontal between studs to impede vertical spread of fire, and specialized caulking around penetrations for pipes and wires.

Those features may not stop the fire forever, but primary objective is to give plenty of time for escape.

In contrast, a typical mobile home is said to be fully engulfed with flames in 7 minutes. That may be old data, from fiber paneled mobile homes, not the newer ones with 1/2" sheetrock.

There are also standards for size of window openings to facilitate escape.

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The 2x4 fire blocking needs to be installed every 4’ of every wall bay. It’s not the most fun part about building homes but one of the most crucial in my opinion.
If you put sheet rock up in a new garage you need to spackle and tape the joints and fill any holes with fire caulk by code.
The wall cavity must be sealed %100 I believe

Checkthisout said:

Amazon temporarily shuts down solar rooftops at all US facilities due to fires

Amazon said that it "proactively powered off our onsite solar installations in North America" after a recent string of costly fires at warehouses.

www.foxbusiness.com

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"... a small number of isolated incidents ... representing about 12.7% of all applicable facilities."

x98myers7 said:

400v DC arc with no load

~120v DC no load


so... what the heck is AFCI actually going to do to prevent a fire? is the expectation that AFCI will trigger RSD modules to bring the series level voltage down? and is 80v the magic number?

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AFCI will stop a series arc.
Won't stop a parallel arc (to ground, or to another wire.)
Maybe bad connection burned through insulation before an arc started.
But some Walmart fires were initiated after system had been preemptively shut off.

Jim H said:

when it starts getting popular and ya lose a lot of folks

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Fractal woodburning accidental electrocutions have apparently reached that point.

32 volt boater said:

I guess, you only need one sprinkler in the kitchen near the stove and up to 50% of fires would get squashed.

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Sprinkler? Consider this situation:

Danke said:

Yep, sister-in-law nearly burnt down the whole kitchen by forgetting to turn off a pot of oil.

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In that case, water is an incompatible extinguishing media.

Something I understood as a child, but my mother didn't immediately, when I started a paraffin fire. Although being a science teacher, she tossed a cup of water on it. As flames filled the stove I simply pointed at the fire extinguisher.


Schools are required to have sprinklers. Except existing ones don't have to be retrofitted. Even after burning to the ground, replacement school is exempt. (California, D*m*cr*t run, not R*p*bl*c*n.)

Apparently refrigerators rank below stoves but above toasters as pyromaniacs:

Hedges said:

"... a small number of isolated incidents ... representing about 12.7% of all applicable facilities."



AFCI will stop a series arc.
Won't stop a parallel arc (to ground, or to another wire.)
Maybe bad connection burned through insulation before an arc started.
But some Walmart fires were initiated after system had been preemptively shut off.



Fractal woodburning accidental electrocutions have apparently reached that point.





Incompatible extinguishing media.
Something I understood as a child, but my mother didn't immediately, when I started a paraffin fire. Although being a science teacher, she tossed a cup of water on it. As flames filled the stove I simply pointed at the fire extinguisher.


Schools are required to have sprinklers. Except existing ones don't have to be retrofitted. Even after burning to the ground, replacement school is exempt. (California, D*m*cr*t run, not R*p*bl*c*n.)

Apparently refrigerators rank below stoves but above toasters as pyromaniacs:

What Kitchen Appliances Cause the Most Fires? | reynoldsrestoration

While many kitchen fires are caused by open flames, others are caused by kitchen appliances. Let's take a look at the common appliances that cause fires, ways to prevent appliance fires, and kitchen fire statistics.

reynoldsrestoration.com

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Fractal wood burning is a real thing…it’s dangerous if you don’t take it seriously…unless you were brought up to know what to do
in a bad situation it can get ya…

I would have no problem keeping my battle borne batts under the flip up bed in my rv… I have had much more dangerous girls in that bed in the past …. And I’m still here smiling …
A good and fun life is full of risks…that makes it worth living.

x98myers7 said:

so... what the heck is AFCI actually going to do to prevent a fire? is the expectation that AFCI will trigger RSD modules to bring the series level voltage down? and is 80v the magic number?

Click to expand...

There is a belief that lower voltage, lower wattage, is less likely to sustain an arc. So AFCI triggering RSD could interrupt some large fraction of these. But the two could be independent and panels remain in series until fire open-circuits the string and interrupts RSD keep-alive signal.
The Walmart and Amazon type installations of course wouldn't have RSD. That is just imposed on residential installations.

Hedges said:

"... a small number of isolated incidents ... representing about 12.7% of all applicable facilities."



AFCI will stop a series arc.
Won't stop a parallel arc (to ground, or to another wire.)
Maybe bad connection burned through insulation before an arc started.
But some Walmart fires were initiated after system had been preemptively shut off.



Fractal woodburning accidental electrocutions have apparently reached that point.





Incompatible extinguishing media.
Something I understood as a child, but my mother didn't immediately, when I started a paraffin fire. Although being a science teacher, she tossed a cup of water on it. As flames filled the stove I simply pointed at the fire extinguisher.


Schools are required to have sprinklers. Except existing ones don't have to be retrofitted. Even after burning to the ground, replacement school is exempt. (California, D*m*cr*t run, not R*p*bl*c*n.)

Apparently refrigerators rank below stoves but above toasters as pyromaniacs:

What Kitchen Appliances Cause the Most Fires? | reynoldsrestoration

While many kitchen fires are caused by open flames, others are caused by kitchen appliances. Let's take a look at the common appliances that cause fires, ways to prevent appliance fires, and kitchen fire statistics.

reynoldsrestoration.com

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You are quoting me after selectively taking one of the sentences from the previous post to mine. I was tagging along with the statement that 50% of home fires are in the kitchen.

I always have a fire extinguisher and fire blanket in my kitchens. I do not throw water on a grease/oil fire.

Danke said:

You are quoting me after selectively taking one of the sentences from the previous post to mine. I was tagging along with the statement that 50% of home fires are in the kitchen.

I always have a fire extinguisher and fire blanket in my kitchens. I do not throw water on a grease/oil fire.

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Jus put the lid on the skillet ….that’s what I’ve done,,3=times … fire goes out …if it’s already spread everywhere, just grab your money guns and pot and get out…

Jim H said:

Jus put the lid on the skillet ….that’s what I’ve done,,3=times … fire goes out …if it’s already spread everywhere, just grab your money guns and pot and get out…

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“Get out?”

You cook indoors? You must have one of those fancy trailers.

Danke said:

You are quoting me after selectively taking one of the sentences from the previous post to mine. I was tagging along with the statement that 50% of home fires are in the kitchen.

I always have a fire extinguisher and fire blanket in my kitchens. I do not throw water on a grease/oil fire.

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Sorry, not faulting you or anything.
Just quoting you giving an example of an oil fire, which would be incompatible with (water) sprinkler mentioned by Boater.

Commercial kitchens of course have a canister something suitable, and a pull chain as well as automatic shower heads.

Fire extinguishers I keep around.
Fire blanket, hmmm


"After initial investigation in 2013, and later in 2014, the Netherlands Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority issued a statement that fire blankets should never be used to extinguish an oil/fat fire such as a chip pan fire, even if the icons or text on the blanket indicates the blanket may be used in such a case."

Probably fine with a little bit of oil, just not enough to saturate the blanket.
Fire blankets are something I've never learned about.

Hedges said:

Sorry, not faulting you or anything.
Just quoting you giving an example of an oil fire, which would be incompatible with (water) sprinkler mentioned by Boater.

Commercial kitchens of course have a canister something suitable, and a pull chain as well as automatic shower heads.

Fire extinguishers I keep around.
Fire blanket, hmmm

Fire blanket - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"After initial investigation in 2013, and later in 2014, the Netherlands Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority issued a statement that fire blankets should never be used to extinguish an oil/fat fire such as a chip pan fire, even if the icons or text on the blanket indicates the blanket may be used in such a case."

Probably fine with a little bit of oil, just not enough to saturate the blanket.
Fire blankets are something I've never learned about.

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This is the one I have in my kitchen:

“Emergency fire blanket kit contains a fire retardant first aid blanket that is useful in extinguishing flames in small fires at work, auto or home. Fire retardant blanket can also be used to put out small welding fires.
Emergency fire blanket kit is packed in a sturdy nylon pouch for hanging, storage and quick release. Blanket is specially treated fire-retardant material that is 30% wool, 70% man-made fibers with a 100% Olefin core. Blanket measures 62 in x82 in.”

Jim H said:

Jus put the lid on the skillet ….that’s what I’ve done,,3=times … fire goes out …if it’s already spread everywhere, just grab your money guns and pot and get out…

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I am having a vision of you getting outside with that stuff and wondering what you forgot?. Oh the Wife

robby said:

I am having a vision of you getting outside with that stuff and wondering what you forgot?. Oh the Wife

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I tried to tell her ” let’s roll , come on”