I think getting a third the lifespan for half the price is a bad deal.
Are we all getting GRADE B cells??
- Thread starter flemmingdjensen
- Start date
I think getting a third the lifespan for half the price is a bad deal.
Alkaline
Solar Wizard
NEVER EVER PAY WITH BANK TRANSFER TO ANYONE ON ALIBABA. If you do you, then you deserve everything that is coming to you.
The seller knows how you paid, and they have you by the balls if you do bank transfer they can change up your order and do other nonsense send 272 AH instead of 280 e.t.c nothing you can do, if you contact Alibaba they will tell you, Hey work with your seller and figure it out.
But when you pay with credit card and file a charge back alibaba will start crying please please cancel dispute please please save the world and end global hunger by canceling your dispute ?
I think Luyuan is the best Alibaba seller but I would still never pay with a credit card. Some time ago there are people who had there shipment get stuck in UPS warehouse because of a fire, I don't know what happened but I'm pretty sure the rest of the shipment got seized. Luyuan's cells got stuck in this mess. Paid with check, congratulations now you are stuck... Not saying Amy won't do everything to solve the issue, but that is the only recourse you have left.
Lastly, remember all these cells are shipped without the correct markings if they don't have that UN Lion sticker and declaration UPS / FEDEX will deny any damage claim.
So keep that chargeback finger ready and walk away if something doesn't feel right.
BTW I talked with Chase about this and began talking with a rep, while after a long conversation I got this chap to reveal that they basically don't even bother listening to aliexpress and alibaba anymore, like 99% of the disputes for these 2 sites get ruled in the buyers favor because of all the issues. Paypal will tell you the same, I'm sure this one of those problematic sites where the dispute ratio is so out of whack they probably hold alibaba/express funds for 90 days before even releasing it to them.
BUT yeah, NEVER EVER EVER PAY with a bank transfer.
The seller knows how you paid, and they have you by the balls if you do bank transfer they can change up your order and do other nonsense send 272 AH instead of 280 e.t.c nothing you can do, if you contact Alibaba they will tell you, Hey work with your seller and figure it out.
But when you pay with credit card and file a charge back alibaba will start crying please please cancel dispute please please save the world and end global hunger by canceling your dispute ?
I think Luyuan is the best Alibaba seller but I would still never pay with a credit card. Some time ago there are people who had there shipment get stuck in UPS warehouse because of a fire, I don't know what happened but I'm pretty sure the rest of the shipment got seized. Luyuan's cells got stuck in this mess. Paid with check, congratulations now you are stuck... Not saying Amy won't do everything to solve the issue, but that is the only recourse you have left.
Lastly, remember all these cells are shipped without the correct markings if they don't have that UN Lion sticker and declaration UPS / FEDEX will deny any damage claim.
So keep that chargeback finger ready and walk away if something doesn't feel right.
BTW I talked with Chase about this and began talking with a rep, while after a long conversation I got this chap to reveal that they basically don't even bother listening to aliexpress and alibaba anymore, like 99% of the disputes for these 2 sites get ruled in the buyers favor because of all the issues. Paypal will tell you the same, I'm sure this one of those problematic sites where the dispute ratio is so out of whack they probably hold alibaba/express funds for 90 days before even releasing it to them.
BUT yeah, NEVER EVER EVER PAY with a bank transfer.
robby
Photon Vampire
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
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The Warranty from Tier1 Battery pack makers is 10 Years and typically 6000 cycles.
They say 6000 cycles but that would be 16 Years if you cycle it daily. I am getting a bit skeptical of that 6K claim because it really means nothing in the grand scheme if they are off the hook after 10 Years. So I am more leaning towards 5000 cycles. I lean that way because in several video I have watched they often say 10 Year warranty but you will probably get 13+ years in reality.
If a battery is Warrantied for 5 years IMHO that translates to them believing it will last 2500 cycles or almost 7 years.
If they truly believe they will be around in 5 years I would think they want a battery that will last past the warranty point.
In any case IMHO the main escape route for these companies from warranty liability is the amount of years they offer on the warranty.
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robby
Photon Vampire
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I have not used a bank transfer in the last 15+ years. It has always been the easiest way to scam people.
Alkaline
Solar Wizard
25 Ah flew away from Andy's pack after 75 cycles.
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As I commented on that video:
- Test should be done at 25C, not 11C or whatever it was. This accounts for at least 2%
- Battery cells are 4 years old, count calendar aging for this especially since they're used in a warm environment. He didn't get 280Ah when he just got them either.
- Degradation increases since they're not in a fixture, as per the datasheet.
So, you have essentially four year old cells (without knowing where they were for two years before he got them) pulling under 8% less than nameplate capacity, while testing occurred in cold temperatures. Not bad really.
- Test should be done at 25C, not 11C or whatever it was. This accounts for at least 2%
- Battery cells are 4 years old, count calendar aging for this especially since they're used in a warm environment. He didn't get 280Ah when he just got them either.
- Degradation increases since they're not in a fixture, as per the datasheet.
So, you have essentially four year old cells (without knowing where they were for two years before he got them) pulling under 8% less than nameplate capacity, while testing occurred in cold temperatures. Not bad really.
burgerking
New Member
SFK just did a new test on 4 cells (from Basen).
1 totally garbage
1 totally great (almost EV grade)
2 pcs so-so grade b cells
this is bad for Basen. they were selling crap
1 totally garbage
1 totally great (almost EV grade)
2 pcs so-so grade b cells
this is bad for Basen. they were selling crap
hummmingbear
New Member
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- 172
this is my sentiment. I don't mind if my cells did not pass Automotive spec, but I would like to know why they did not pass and what the spec sheet is. They could then at least be grouped properly. I know I will not get this for the cells I bought in the past but maybe it'll be provided in the future.
hummmingbear
New Member
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I feel a little skeptical of SFK. They were initially doing their tests wrong and stated that they were not with very high confidence. They also have financial incentive to bash other sellers. It's interesting data nonetheless
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I agree about being skeptical but I would not call it data, I would call it anecdotal adjectives, Some details would be nice, like capacity, internal resistance and/or voltage sag? Without that is is hard to tell whether that cell should be grade C or grade G (for garbage)?
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Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Hmm. If a reputed vendor tells me:
"internal resistance and voltage are matched, capacity is not." for "grade A-" (call them what you like) cells, and I'm quite prepared to lose some capacity if I pay half what EV grade cost - I don't build EVs - should I worry in the least? Probably not.
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"internal resistance and voltage are matched, capacity is not." for "grade A-" (call them what you like) cells, and I'm quite prepared to lose some capacity if I pay half what EV grade cost - I don't build EVs - should I worry in the least? Probably not.
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houseofancients
Solar Wizard
so they took cells from a seller that is known to sell b grade cells most of the time, and based their tests on that ?
admittedly i have watched the video, but would be more impressed if they had done a direct comparrison with their own cells in the same video using the same method
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I think quite differently. If the Chinese government doesn't think the cells are safe to use in a vehicle, I don't want them.
burgerking
New Member
What about cells that were not tested for EV, should we assume they are Grade A then?
Meritsun claims to manufacture their own cells. No EV testing/certification I assume.
I am very disheartened by this drama. I wont be DIYing batteries anymore.
Alkaline
Solar Wizard
I feel the same way, this DIY has led to more nonsense than it is worth because of the sneaky bs, also I think everyone should do there own research and not rely on these forums as many posters have questionable motives. I don't have all the know how but I don't even think I trust official seals like UL any more.
After doing this for gong on 2 years now, Its been a headache. I dealt with Xuba, Basen, Luyuan, and apparently I was a fool 2/3 times. Or maybe its 3/3 times because I overpaid? But I was supposed to know the first 2 sellers were problematic because I was supposed to be able to see in the future before I ordered ? Every time I read the forums I get more upset, so good luck to all hopefully you get decent stuff. For me I'm taking a break from the madness.
?
After doing this for gong on 2 years now, Its been a headache. I dealt with Xuba, Basen, Luyuan, and apparently I was a fool 2/3 times. Or maybe its 3/3 times because I overpaid? But I was supposed to know the first 2 sellers were problematic because I was supposed to be able to see in the future before I ordered ? Every time I read the forums I get more upset, so good luck to all hopefully you get decent stuff. For me I'm taking a break from the madness.
?
robby
Photon Vampire
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I am surprised that a Chinese company has not already produced an "Amp Saver" A new revolutionary device that not only saves your batteries from degrading but will add more capacity over time.
Only $29.95 !!
The new SFK video that went into detail of the test setup took away all doubt of good cells vs bad cells. Thoroughly enjoyed the video and IMO showed they have no axe to grind. If I had a need for EV cells I’d be reaching out to them.
My hope is that I bought “decent” cells, sadly I don’t have test equipment or loads right now to push the set up but some day I will.
My hope is that I bought “decent” cells, sadly I don’t have test equipment or loads right now to push the set up but some day I will.
I don't get it. My system has been running for over two years now, with 32x280Ah EVE cells that came from a vendor that isn't even around anymore. At the time I paid €3215.5 for 32 cells including shipping. I've documented this before. That's technically 28.5kWh storage, but let's round it down to 25kWh - a cost of €128.62 per kWh. What other solution comes even close to this? As I said, it's been running a house for over two years now without issues. I'm almost ready adding another 32 cells from Docan that I got a few months ago.
Partsjockey
New Member
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- Nov 17, 2019
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Is there a place where I can look at this to see how it's done step by step since I'm new to this venture or adventure pick your poison.
Warpspeed
Solar Wizard
I suggest you print out the whole of that thread starting at page two:Is there a place where I can look at this to see how it's done step by step since I'm new to this venture or adventure pick your poison.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/are-we-all-getting-grade-b-cells.39156/page-2
There is a lot of very specific information there from Mr Toms.
I plan to build a high powered charger and discharge load to automatically cycle through the whole process for each individual cell.
Too many other projects on right now, but that is the grand plan here.
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