CATL 271Ah cell issues.

[RollingThunder]

Thank you for posting. I have long list of people that ordered through me that were/are happy with the results. This fiasco and the supplier that never managed to get in the good he was supposed to are the only blemishes on my record. I am working diligently to get both resolved but, unfortunately, the scope of each of these messes is just overwhelming and together pretty unmanageable.

My daughter has had and still has no real control over any of this, but she is working hard to help me get on it all taken care of.

I have 28 pristine GFB 277ah cells on hand in Michigan, and another 300+ CATL 302ah cells from EV packs (from a totally different supplier....the supplier that shipped the cells from Eve EV pack teardowns that OM617YOTA mentioned) that were shipped on pallets that will be delivered in the next day or two. Since they are from a trusted supplier and have been shipped on pallets they should be in great shape.

Did the Kehang 280s ever arrive to you?

 

[Michael B Caro]

Did the Kehang 280s ever arrive to you?

Yes, I have some Keheng 280ah, some GFB (Ganfeng) 277ah, and over 300 CATL 302ah from EV packs that were shipped on two pallets and my son will be calling UPS on Monday to set a day for them to drop them off.

My daughter will be headed for Nashville TN from Michigan on Thursday or Friday. She will be delivering 40 cells to a guy in KY on her way, and she can take along more cells if anyone wants to buy then and have them dropped off and lives near her route.....or wants to meet her someplace on her route. Large numbers of cells cost a lot to ship domestically and so whenever possible this is the best way to go.,

 

[Michael B Caro]

If you received cells that were damaged when you received them....you are not due a refund of any kind until the supplier takes whatever action they end up taking.
I believe I made it clear to everyone that if there were problems when the cells arrived I would work with the supplier and do everything I could to get them to make it right. I am doing that.
I also indicated to most that, at times, I go above and beyond what the supplier is willing to do and I have done that in the past when I felt it was warranted. But, I do not do that until the supplier does whatever it is they are going to do, and with over 300 cells being involved in this situation I am not sure how much I will be able to do above and beyond what the supplier does.

If you manage to somehow slip a refund by when you did receive your cells, even though damaged, or if we know that your cells were shipped but recalled, you are stealing money from buys that legitimately have a refund coming because their cells were never shipped.....nearly all Lishen cells and a few Coslight cells.

 

[audreez]

If you received cells that were damaged when you received them....you are not due a refund of any kind until the supplier takes whatever action they end up taking.
I believe I made it clear to everyone that if there were problems when the cells arrived I would work with the supplier and do everything I could to get them to make it right. I am doing that.
I also indicated to most that, at times, I go above and beyond what the supplier is willing to do and I have done that in the past when I felt it was warranted. But, I do not do that until the supplier does whatever it is they are going to do, and with over 300 cells being involved in this situation I am not sure how much I will be able to do above and beyond what the supplier does.

If you manage to somehow slip a refund by when you did receive your cells, even though damaged, or if we know that your cells were shipped but recalled, you are stealing money from buys that legitimately have a refund coming because their cells were never shipped.....nearly all Lishen cells and a few Coslight cells.

Can you please check your PM and maybe respond? Or just issue a refund for lishen cells that never shipped.

Thanks

 

[Michael B Caro]

I spoke with the supplier about the lack of a way to file a complaint with UPS. They spoke with their forwarder, and then said this:

"The freight forwarder recommends that your customer submit the tracking number to look for UPS to appeal, and then the agent (shipper) will use the appeal number to expedite the process and progress of the claim."

I will try to talk to UPS on Monday and see if there is indeed a way to do as the supplier asks, and if there is I will detail it in here.

 

[Michael B Caro]

Can you please check your PM and maybe respond? Or just issue a refund for lishen cells that never shipped.

Thanks

Yes I will send you a message.

 

[MiPaul]

@Michael B Caro any word on when my 150's might ship?

 

[AER]

Do we know yet who packaged the cells? Was it the supplier, shipper, king guy in California, or who?

 

[Texas-Mark]

If you manage to somehow slip a refund by when you did receive your cells, even though damaged, or if we know that your cells were shipped but recalled, you are stealing money from buys that legitimately have a refund coming because their cells were never shipped.

How is it stealing money if people filed a legitimate claim with their credit card company or paypal for goods not received or not as advertised? IMO it is wrong to vilify those got tired of waiting for a resolution that most likely will never come.

I still don't understand what UPS is supposed to do when it is clearly an improper packaging issue, and UPS is not responsible for damage from that. That does not even take into the account the contents (batteries), and lack of proper markings for that contents. I will gladly say I was wrong if UPS pays out anything.

 

[AER]

Also has the supplier stated his intentions with the cells that were recalled?

 

[RobertGreen]

If you received cells that were damaged when you received them....you are not due a refund of any kind until the supplier takes whatever action they end up taking.

This is absolutely NOT YOUR PLACE to decide. You have an agreement to abide by the policies from Paypal and others when you deal with them, and anyone abiding by their rules and taking the legal, normal, and appropriate measures to protect themselves from the misfortune of doing business with you is well within their rights. It's wrong of you to suggest that people simply trying to be made whole are somehow stealing from you or other users here.

You are out of line.

I understand that you're taking a loss here, but you were also the one standing to make a profit. That's how business works.

I encourage anyone who is able to do so to file a Paypal claim for items that are not received or not as described. It's likely the only way that you're going to be made whole here, and it's the reason that Paypal buyer protection exists.

edit: By the way, as I have stated, I received a full refund after being unheard for weeks with requests to receive a refund for my lishen order after filing with paypal.

 

[Tingusone]

Yes I will send you a message.

@Michael B Caro , can you check your pm's and send my refund as well please.

 

[RollingThunder]

Yes, I have some Keheng 280ah, some GFB (Ganfeng) 277ah, and over 300 CATL 302ah from EV packs that were shipped on two pallets and my son will be calling UPS on Monday to set a day for them to drop them off.

My daughter will be headed for Nashville TN from Michigan on Thursday or Friday. She will be delivering 40 cells to a guy in KY on her way, and she can take along more cells if anyone wants to buy then and have them dropped off and lives near her route.....or wants to meet her someplace on her route. Large numbers of cells cost a lot to ship domestically and so whenever possible this is the best way to go.,

Great, I have an order with you for 16 of those cells, delivered to you. Once you have them, how much will it cost to have them shipped to 89011?

 

[markcm]

@Michael B Caro - Please respond to our conversation either via PM here or your CATL debacle email.

 

[OM617YOTA]

@Michael B Caro Please respond to my PM about missing bus bars and hardware, as well.

 

[stienman]

Received the remainder of my CATL 271 cells today. They were acceptable - poor packaging, but no bent terminals, only one minor ding on one cell.

Those of you still waiting whose order hasn’t been recalled, you might be in ok shape.

 

[A.Justice]

...If you manage to somehow slip a refund by when you did receive your cells, even though damaged, or if we know that your cells were shipped but recalled, you are stealing money from buys that legitimately have a refund coming because their cells were never shipped.....

Are you effing kidding? YOU are the thief here Mike. YOU took money from people, FOR A PROFIT, and aren't giving it back. YOU are making threats against people for trying to recover their money that YOU collected. You are in completely over your head, you messed up, and now you're realizing that people are pissed. YOU are the one "stealing" money from buys.

Did you take money for a misrepresented good, and then not refund, while threatening that people wouldn't get refunds if they got the authorities involved? Yeah buddy, that's LITERALLY fraud.

At this point if people don't see the crap that you're pulling then they have their head willingly in the sand. If anyone orders from you from this point on they get what they deserve.

I think it's about time for a moderator to step in and lock your thread from new purchases here until this can be taken care of. This is getting absurd that they allow you to still deal on here, you clearly aren't doing just group buys anymore (you have an entire sales website), yet your pretending to operate like a "guy just doing a favor for people", which isn't what you're doing at this point.

It sounds like you were operating an illegal business with no insurance and no license, shipping things with improper labels, through a service that had no idea what they were shipping. You know better than to ask anyone to contact a shipper with something like that, it's a joke, stall tactic, and you know that it won't do anything.

I would suggest it this point that people lawyer up, call their credit card companies and PayPal, and if that doesn't work start getting the FTC involved, because Mike clearly can't do anything about this anymore, other than call customers thieves.

 

[ereams65]

I’m curious what the “claim” should state for those that had their cells recalled? Those people deserve their refund regardless of how it’s acquired. To imply they’re “stealing” is making you complicit in the debacle. Sorry but it sure does look like the stall tactic mentioned above. Based on that comment, is the goal to scare others into not trying to get their money back? How easy would it be to send the cells you’re scheduling to be delivered to your house to those that are without and then you deal with ‘your supplier’? That’s “doing all you can”.

 

[RobertGreen]

I’m curious what the “claim” should state for those that had their cells recalled? Those people deserve their refund regardless of how it’s acquired. To imply they’re “stealing” is making you complicit in the debacle. Sorry but it sure does look like the stall tactic mentioned above. Based on that comment, is the goal to scare others into not trying to get their money back? How easy would it be to send the cells you’re scheduling to be delivered to your house to those that are without and then you deal with ‘your supplier’? That’s “doing all you can”.

The claim is simple for Paypal: "Item not received"
If you just quickly and simply state that you did not receive the merchandise you paid for 6 months ago, they will process your refund (it still takes them 14 days to go through the process)
If you received damaged items, the claim is "item not as described", and explain that it arrived damaged.

With each person who gets a refund processed, Paypal is putting another note or point against his account in this matter, making it even more likely that they will continue to process these refunds.
Reading between the lines of Michaels recent post, he inadvertently makes it clear that Paypal is granting refunds for those people filing "item not as described" or damaged item cases as well.

I suspect that by this point (this is purely speculation on my part), there will have been some type of red flag applied to his account due to the large number of issues lately and due to the volume of money involved. This likely works in favor of those seeking refunds.

edit: I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but I am trying to make it clear that IF YOU CAN STILL FILE A PAYPAL CLAIM (180 day limit), YOU WILL PROBABLY GET YOUR MONEY BACK by doing so

 

[JaVid]

Are you effing kidding? YOU are the thief here Mike. YOU took money from people, FOR A PROFIT, and aren't giving it back. YOU are making threats against people for trying to recover their money that YOU collected. You are in completely over your head, you messed up, and now you're realizing that people are pissed. YOU are the one "stealing" money from buys.

Did you take money for a misrepresented good, and then not refund, while threatening that people wouldn't get refunds if they got the authorities involved? Yeah buddy, that's LITERALLY fraud.

At this point if people don't see the crap that you're pulling then they have their head willingly in the sand. If anyone orders from you from this point on they get what they deserve.

I think it's about time for a moderator to step in and lock your thread from new purchases here until this can be taken care of. This is getting absurd that they allow you to still deal on here, you clearly aren't doing just group buys anymore (you have an entire sales website), yet your pretending to operate like a "guy just doing a favor for people", which isn't what you're doing at this point.

It sounds like you were operating an illegal business with no insurance and no license, shipping things with improper labels, through a service that had no idea what they were shipping. You know better than to ask anyone to contact a shipper with something like that, it's a joke, stall tactic, and you know that it won't do anything.

I would suggest it this point that people lawyer up, call their credit card companies and PayPal, and if that doesn't work start getting the FTC involved, because Mike clearly can't do anything about this anymore, other than call customers thieves.

I bought cells through Michael. It wasn't a perfect transaction and I would have hesitated to use him again. I did have enough contact with him to realize he means well and is not a thief or a fraud. His sincere intention was to service the diy battery community and bring about transactions where everyone was happy. All that being said, he has made a lot of mistakes in 2021 and he has no one except himself to blame for where he finds himself at this point. Anyone ordering more cells through Michael at this point should get his/her head examined.

I really feel for all those affected by this terrible situation. I don't blame anyone for asking for a refund if they never got their cells or received "not as advertised cells" - that's what buyer protection is for and why we pay those fees. The fact is this makes Mike's life harder and more stressful and he might not have thought his last few comments out very well because they aren't very fair to the people who bought through him. I hope all those that didn't have or had expired buyer protection get made whole or mostly whole.

This is a great community. We are all flawed human beings and make mistakes and let's not make it worse than it already is. After my transaction with Michael, I realized I should have been a lot clearer about my expectations and what I thought was fair resolution to certain issues. The transaction was too informal and I was just lucky it didn't go sideways.