Is such a thing as off grid internet possible?
- Thread starter Gueyog8a7
- Start date
yep, basically the same as a human
KMRoberts20
New Member
While I don’t know how to do this you are correct that it can be done. I met someone who has his own direct line of sight access to the internet. He is a hamm radio guy and had it on one of his towers. But I didn’t get a chance to grill him on how he does it.
The being off grid and internet needs to be defined to get anywhere with this.
If off grid means you are completely self reliant and pay no bills then you just rid yourself of the internet unless your willing to hack into some place and steal service.
So lets rule out "I'm not paying for it".
So now were at the "I'm willing to pay but don't want anything physically connected to my offgrid place"
This parts easy. You either go wifi or satellite or cellphone.
If you have good cellphone service and are willing to pay for a package with enough bandwidth then its proably the best way to go these days for most people.
Regular wifi works if your just on the edge of civilization and its available. I had customers like this on an isp biz of mine.
Wifi can also work long range but long range requires a local isp that is not one of the big name isp types since they don't do anything custom locally or if you have another home/family member with wifi you can do this yourself sharing out the internet located there.
2.4 ghz doesn't really do long range. 900mhz and lower frequencies do. I have done a few 40 mile runs at 900mhz.
700mhz does 100's of miles but requires a license.
Then we have satellite. Of all the choices this ones the ideal way to go since its mature now technology wise and is a true two way setup now. The original types were dialup to send and satellite to receive. Not offgrid friendly. The current ones are send and receive completely via satellite. Starlink if available in your area is the only choice considering its speed upload and download wise and low pings. Hughes net would be the second choice but its much lower speed wise and horrible pings.
If off grid means you are completely self reliant and pay no bills then you just rid yourself of the internet unless your willing to hack into some place and steal service.
So lets rule out "I'm not paying for it".
So now were at the "I'm willing to pay but don't want anything physically connected to my offgrid place"
This parts easy. You either go wifi or satellite or cellphone.
If you have good cellphone service and are willing to pay for a package with enough bandwidth then its proably the best way to go these days for most people.
Regular wifi works if your just on the edge of civilization and its available. I had customers like this on an isp biz of mine.
Wifi can also work long range but long range requires a local isp that is not one of the big name isp types since they don't do anything custom locally or if you have another home/family member with wifi you can do this yourself sharing out the internet located there.
2.4 ghz doesn't really do long range. 900mhz and lower frequencies do. I have done a few 40 mile runs at 900mhz.
700mhz does 100's of miles but requires a license.
Then we have satellite. Of all the choices this ones the ideal way to go since its mature now technology wise and is a true two way setup now. The original types were dialup to send and satellite to receive. Not offgrid friendly. The current ones are send and receive completely via satellite. Starlink if available in your area is the only choice considering its speed upload and download wise and low pings. Hughes net would be the second choice but its much lower speed wise and horrible pings.
this can easily go dozens of miles so you have to define long range as well
If there is a tree, bush, pollen, offensive language 2.4 goes nowhere range wise.
Remember 2.4 ghz was picked for sticking consumers devices in a range that had pathetic range so more devices could function in a given area without conflicting.
That's why things were moved out of the 900mhz range which is FAR superior in range and penetrating characteristics.
Tall towers with elevated receiving points is the only way to get anything out of 2.4. House to barn isn't what I consider long range. Also with 2.4 seasonal issues run rampant with leaves growing messing things up.
I, and others, further clarified my position throughout this thread.
The idea was DIY access with one's own equipment in a FOS (free and open source) manner nothing to do with cost but rather self reliance and determination. Others have clarified this is not a practical endeavour on an individual level at least.
It seems the only way would be through coalitions and that goes against the goal of self sufficiency and isolationism. I am not against coalitions and working towards a shared goal just that my original idea was how to do it on a shoestring with easily accessible materials which seems pretty much out of the question.
I know someone up on a mountain that has a very directional antenna and mooches wifi from a mcdonalds down in the valley below (a couple of miles). That's about as close as you are going to get I think, if there is an open/free wifi within LOS of your property (or a tower on your property).
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Like other networks, I gladly connect and use the internet. And pay for the service.
Like other networks, I have my own self-operated parallel systems on my property - so far these include potable water, septic, heat, much of our food, and more recently electricicty (solar).
The point of 'being offgrid' (I mean more that electric here, food, water, heating) is not to save money - ask me how I know! - the point is to be more self reliant and less vunerable to disruptions that occur in the centralized/wider systems.
The internet is a system we all rely upon and can be disrupted - what can I do to be 'more self reliant' and 'less vunerable to disruptions': A brick TB of data, including all of wikipedia, LAN set-up for my home and business next door - solar assistant doesn't care if the WWW is down.
I am not sure if we can create files down-load whole conversations from DIY Solar Forum - filed away in case we lose the net, or access for awhle. It may be a good idea to save conversations concerning equipment trouble shooting on items you have in your own system, such that you can access this information with or without the internet, if the need were to arise.
Local comms - two way radio works well for around the homestead.
Like other networks, I have my own self-operated parallel systems on my property - so far these include potable water, septic, heat, much of our food, and more recently electricicty (solar).
The point of 'being offgrid' (I mean more that electric here, food, water, heating) is not to save money - ask me how I know! - the point is to be more self reliant and less vunerable to disruptions that occur in the centralized/wider systems.
The internet is a system we all rely upon and can be disrupted - what can I do to be 'more self reliant' and 'less vunerable to disruptions': A brick TB of data, including all of wikipedia, LAN set-up for my home and business next door - solar assistant doesn't care if the WWW is down.
I am not sure if we can create files down-load whole conversations from DIY Solar Forum - filed away in case we lose the net, or access for awhle. It may be a good idea to save conversations concerning equipment trouble shooting on items you have in your own system, such that you can access this information with or without the internet, if the need were to arise.
Local comms - two way radio works well for around the homestead.
MisterB1959
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2022
- Messages
- 355
Not sure what youre trying to achieve in your end game, but if youre looking not to pay council tax/rates, then even going to a public library is 'stealing' .....
assuming youre going to keep a phone, then go for one with unlimited internet, yes you will pay for it, but as part of a 'bundle' ,,,
assuming youre going to keep a phone, then go for one with unlimited internet, yes you will pay for it, but as part of a 'bundle' ,,,
It is also throughput.
900MHz can't support the speed that 2.4GHz can, and 5 GHz can go even faster. You will not get 300Mbps download on a 900MHz connection. But yes the higher the frequency the lower the range and more easily it is disrupted (generally speaking).
still didn't define long range though lol..
anyway forgot another network in my previous post:
meshtastic.org
also very widely used, might be the best open source one today
anyway forgot another network in my previous post:
Meshtastic
An open source, off-grid, decentralized, mesh network built to run on affordable, low-power devices
krby
Solar Enthusiast
With high gain directional antennas, you can overcome some of these, but not all. About 20 years ago, my home internet link was service from a neighborhood co-op ISP. Standard (2002 era) consumer 2.4 Ghz wifi radios with 24dBi parabolic antenna on one end and an 8dBi omni on another. I think the distance was between 5-6 miles.
One other advantage of 2.4Ghz for home wifi is it wasn't (at the time) crowded out by analog wideband 900Mhz cordless phones, baby monitors, etc.
Now its the other way around. The 900mhz band is pretty clean these days.
Samsonite801
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2020
- Messages
- 2,994
Best way I know of to get free off-grid internet is to start your own WISP (Wireless Internet Service Provider). Now with Starlink in the world that would be even easier to do that anywhere. There's always someone around you who wants internet for less than $120 /mo... The only disadvantage to Starlink is they won't sell you a block of public IPs though, so you couldn't offer public IPs to your customers.
But I could literally start a simple WISP right now, I have neighbors on a co-op, and I have a bunch of Ubiquiti gear already, the only other thing I could use is a tower to mount my three 120° AP sector antennas / radios on.
I used to work for 2 different WISP's in the past, the reason I know the bosses always got free internet, is because I was just a tech worker there, and they even gave me free internet too, just for being an employee.
But I could literally start a simple WISP right now, I have neighbors on a co-op, and I have a bunch of Ubiquiti gear already, the only other thing I could use is a tower to mount my three 120° AP sector antennas / radios on.
I used to work for 2 different WISP's in the past, the reason I know the bosses always got free internet, is because I was just a tech worker there, and they even gave me free internet too, just for being an employee.
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nycamper62
New Member
Down the Tubes - George Carlin
Such a thing as off grid internet? - Sure, I use one of those boosters with my android @ camp but it's mostly for weather updates, a little youtude entertainment & light browsing.
65NW
New Member
the other day I passed a utility truck with a tent pitched over a comms hub near an intersection. Its about -20f out and there's guys in there working hard to keep the cat videos and memes flowing. That's why it costs money.
However, I sympathize with the OP and get their point.
There is ham and Lora which have been discussed. (Im currently running a meshtastic node which runs on top of Lora.) You could talk to people on those networks about books their reading. Find a node that is MQTT internet connected for longer range.
Payment would be hard/slow as you'd have to send checks by mail to the publisher or get people to order for you with their internet option (like some Amish using their English neighbor's freezers).
I think the original solution to this problem is called a library. Which, funny enough, also has free internet.
