Finland is pretty good 
Where is off-grid utopia?
- Thread starter Fearless
- Start date
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
How are you holding up in the -46 celcius (- 51 fahrenheit ) now ?Finland is pretty good
Nah, I think I'll skip on Sweden, Norway and Finland
It's awesome! Sun is out, went ice fishing a few days ago, excellent hiking weather, and it's a nice warm 24C inside the house.
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
Happy you like, but I think I'll skip on the popsicle experience stepping outside
Make sure you guys stay warm and safe though..
On a serious note, you must be going through a bunch of firewood atm
Actually, not really. The house behaves exactly as designed - I make one fire a day in the gasification boiler, and one a day in the masonry fireplace. Takes care of all the heating and domestic hot water.
littleharbor2
Solar Addict
I think Baja California Mexico needs to fit somewhere on the list. Lots of sun, never below the mid 40's Fahrenheit, Cost of living is low, wonderful people and over 2,000 miles of beautiful coastline.
Most campos have brackish water available. Buy purified water for consumption or make your own if you're so inclined.
Propane is readily available and usually delivery trucks make the rounds once a week.
Most campos have brackish water available. Buy purified water for consumption or make your own if you're so inclined.
Propane is readily available and usually delivery trucks make the rounds once a week.
Zwy
Solar Wizard
How big is your boiler and how much thermal storage? How many kg of wood per day? I'm currently collecting all my pieces to put together a system. I found a pair of ASME 535 gallon boiler tanks for $600 and will be taking a trip to pick up a used gasification unit soon. My expansion tank was a 370 gallon buffer tank I picked up for $250. That tank probably cost $3K when it was purchased. The boiler tanks saved me from converting 500 gallon propane tanks.
The guy selling me the boiler is 80 years old, his wife made him quit burning wood. He phoned last night and said he had a wiring, relays, pumps, stacks, heat exchangers and a whole pile of extra stuff he is giving me. Boiler is 7 years old and only burned about 4 cords per year in it. $1300 which is cheap for a gasification unit, the refractory has a little wear but still in good condition. He had a converted 500 gallon tank with internal coil for thermal storage but I didn't need it or want to haul it back as I would need to drag a trailer for it.
Boiler has 3000L (800 gallon) of water (mixed with glycol - about 180kWh stored when full) heated to around 80 degrees, the masonry fireplace stores 60kWh, and you can also add the concrete floor to the equation since it's floor heating (10 cm/4 inch thick over the entire living area). Living area is 120m^2 (1300 square feet) and the separate boiler room is 15m^2 (161 square feet).
Number of kg of wood per day, I guess around 50 to 75kg total for both the masonry fireplace and the boiler. It's a mixture of birch, pine and spruce, so the estimate is just that. The gasifier has a filling volume of 230dm^3, and I never need to fill it fully. The masonry fireplace keeps going with about 10kg per day. Gassification is definitely the way to go - good price you found!
Edit: in case anyone wants to read up on my system, it's described here:
#6 Heating Systems
In a cold climate, effective and efficient heating systems are paramount. Because I’m off-grid, I also want a heating system that is fail…
medium.com
Zwy
Solar Wizard
At first I thought you had a misprint at 80 degrees but remembered you are a Finn and thus use C.
1000 gallons heated to 185F (85C) will hold 416,000 btu's (121Kwh) down to 135F (57C). If using low temp emitters like radiant and down to 110F (43C) it is about 625,000 btu's (180Kwh). My house high efficiency gas furnace is about 25 years old and I've decided to upgrade to radiant floor and low temp panel emitters.
I've been studying for a long time over on Hearth.com It seems many are weighing the wood when they fill, they know about what the efficiency is of the boiler, what the delta is from temp sensors on storage, how well stratification the tank is and can easily determine how many lbs of wood for the batch burn to bring storage to desired temp.
All wood translates to the same btu's by lb and moisture content. Density is of course different and it requires more volume for less dense wood. I plan of posting a chart by a scale so my better half knows how much wood to burn in case I'm gone.
The old fella called last night and said he is giving me a pile of extras for free. Relays, switches, pumps, manifolds, heat exchangers and even some refractory cement mix he has as he doesn't have use for it anymore. They installed a forced air high efficiency gas furnace (I would have added a mini split or two in addition to the furnace).
Edit: in case anyone wants to read up on my system, it's described here:
#6 Heating Systems
In a cold climate, effective and efficient heating systems are paramount. Because I’m off-grid, I also want a heating system that is fail…
Zwy
Solar Wizard
I run radiant in the shop with a condensing boiler with a pretty good turn down ratio. I installed it over New Year's weekend a year ago when the original condensing boiler developed a leak in the heat exchanger.
The new Rinnai doesn't let me turn the boiler temp down as low as the Triangle Tube but I do believe it does turn down more. I used to use a boiler temp of 120F (48C) and a floor sensor set at 70F (21C). My feet are plenty warm most days.
I'll probably start out using a high temp emitter heat exchanger in the furnace plenum (it looks like it will be free anyway), then begin the process of adding floor radiant to all the downstairs rooms. Probably a towel warmer too in the bath.
When it is warmer and sunny, I just use the mini split anyway. It's been off since mid December, we have not had any measureable sun since Dec 17th to 20th and on the 29th I had good sun. It has been very cloudy and foggy. Weatherman had predicted sun all week here after last Friday, they sure backtracked on that and show another week of clouds plus snow.
I'm actually considering wind......... someone help me.
I have 66 new wind towers to look at all day now, they just keep going round and round lately. Just not today. My brother has 17.5Kw of wind tower, I just can't commit to it with the maintenance.
I got you, it doesn't work. Here's why...
You're dealing with two fundamental issues:
- The Betz Limit
- The Power in Wind equation
The Betz Limit is basically a theoretical number of the maximum efficiency you can possibly get. At most, only 59.3% of the kinetic wind energy can be used to spin the turbine and generate electricity. Remember this is a theoretical limit; in practice, you're going to be closer to 40%.
The Power in Wind equation is given as:
P = 1/2 x ρ x A x V³
Where:
P = power in Watts
ρ = air density (kg/m³, at about 1.2 at sea level)
A = Swept area of the blades (m²)
V = Velocity of the wind
So, no matter how good your turbine is, you will get in practice at most 40% of the wind energy converted to electricity. To capture the wind energy in the first place, you have two variables to increase (one in your control, the other not): swept area and wind velocity. The smaller you make the turbine, the faster you need to spin to make any meaningful energy. The only variable you control is the swept area, which means making the blades as big as possible. Also notice that the velocity is cubed in that equation, so you'll generate much, much less power at low wind speeds.
In other words, it doesn't work because physics.
Now I will apologize to @Fearless for taking this thread off-topic and shut up.
jdanderson
New Member
We recently got 30 acres in northeast Texas for $4800 per acre ($144k).
10 minutes to a town with a super Walmart, 25 minutes to a town with Home Depot/Lowes, Sams Club, etc...
10 minutes to a town with a super Walmart, 25 minutes to a town with Home Depot/Lowes, Sams Club, etc...
littleharbor2
Solar Addict
Some fine looking land. Amazing price.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
I bought 50 Treed Acres for 50,000 CAD$ (38,500USD) 25 minutes from 3 Walmarts, 1 HomeDepot
Came with 250 foot good drilled well, 2,000 sqft heated steel building and the site has a high spot with 360-degree view right in the middle.
Needs septic, has NO GRID - so it is perfect.
Now how to convince the other half we should move?!
Came with 250 foot good drilled well, 2,000 sqft heated steel building and the site has a high spot with 360-degree view right in the middle.
Needs septic, has NO GRID - so it is perfect.
Now how to convince the other half we should move?!
jdanderson
New Member
Thanks!
5 acres clear up front with a pond, and 25 acres with hardwood trees.
An adjacent plot is still for sale. 32 acres listed at $160k 50/50 trees/clear with two ponds.
The seller only takes cash offers, though.
littleharbor2
Solar Addict
Great deal for somebody. I like that it appears to be mostly somewhat level ground. Trees look healthy. How much rain do you get? It looks pretty green, now anyway.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
Cheap, undeveloped land. Try Maine. It is quite easy to find land for $1,000. - $2,000./acre. The property tax rate is good so, cheap land x moderate property tax rate = low property tax bill. Also, you can put some of your land into a discounted property tax program for timber growth if you choose.
I recently saw a property in Maine for sale. Almost 700 acres with interior gravel roads to get around, 360 degree views, 300 acres of blueberries with last years' reported yield of 800,000lbs, old post and beam barn looked to be in good shape. Asking $500,000. and the property taxes were about $1,800./year if I remember correctly.
The downside... winter snow/cold, mud-season, bugs, distance to civilization and in some places wind.
I recently saw a property in Maine for sale. Almost 700 acres with interior gravel roads to get around, 360 degree views, 300 acres of blueberries with last years' reported yield of 800,000lbs, old post and beam barn looked to be in good shape. Asking $500,000. and the property taxes were about $1,800./year if I remember correctly.
The downside... winter snow/cold, mud-season, bugs, distance to civilization and in some places wind.
Re: Maine. Agree - Fantastic place to live. Amazing place to live and great suggestion, @green mountain boys. Happiest I've ever been since we moved here a few years back. And people here have welcomed us as if we'd been born here, contrary to what some would caution.
That said, please only move here if you intend on being, well, a decent human being. Have radical political views in either direction and want to impose those on others? Please stay where you're at. Don't want to help your neighbors by volunteering in the community? Not the place for you. Think you can move here and change things to the way they were back wherever you're moving from? Not gonna go well.
On the other hand, you can believe just about anything you want, and even discuss those views down at the local watering hole, as long as you treat others respectfully and listen more than you talk. Amazing how people that take that approach can all get along here (I see it almost every week, with a very wide range of people, all at the same table). If you have decent health, we sure could use more volunteer firefighters. I joined for the first time in my mid-fifties, with at least 25 extra pounds on me. They found ways to make me useful (and I made some new friends). Local libraries and other community organizations need help, too. Figure out how to "give back" a little bit, even if you're no longer as young as you once were (we're the oldest state in the nation, so we can't depend on just the young folks to get stuff done).
Anyway... I absolutely love our adopted home, here in Maine. We have friends all over the world, but these folks have treated us like family (the kind you want!). But they expect you to do more than just sit on your rear and "take". They'll give you all the space you need, but they have a sense of community, and if you're gonna live here, they expect you to do your part. Freeloaders, blowhards, and jerks not welcome. Decent folks, willing to pitch in a little, and treat others with respect even when they disagree with you, come on up.
