Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[Spunky]

I hit over 8800W on a single MPPT last week so there must not be a wattage limit for individual inputs (other than the implied limit based on the voltage and amp limits).

Yeah, I had my new array unhooked while adding two more panels and seen some big numbers from the 1st array 8S4P on MPPTs 1&3 (32x375w, 16 on each) during a cold snap.
I was running the battery in closed-loop again and seen a steady 275A charge, so I can't blame the BMS for anything now.

I wonder why that 15kw to the batteries isn't bidirectional instead of only 13kw back(not that most people could supply that for very long)?

 

[niktak11]

Yeah, I had my new array unhooked while adding two more panels and seen some big numbers from the 1st array 8S4P on MPPTs 1&3 (32x375w, 16 on each) during a cold snap.
I was running the battery in closed-loop again and seen a steady 275A charge, so I can't blame the BMS for anything now.

I wonder why that 15kw to the batteries isn't bidirectional instead of only 13kw back(not that most people could supply that for very long)?

View attachment 136278
View attachment 136279

I see that you're above 15kW solar input too. I wonder if that means it'll let you go all the way up to 19.5kW.

 

[Spunky]

I've hit 18kw, not sure if I lack enough panels or it's their cap keeping me from 19.2kw

 

[Danke]

I've hit 18kw, not sure if I lack enough panels or it's their cap keeping me from 19.2kw
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View attachment 136300

So that picture you’re charging your batteries and you have a load? Once the batteries are full, do you think the inverter would produce more than 15 K?

 

[Spunky]

So that picture you’re charging your batteries and you have a load? Once the batteries are full, do you think the inverter would produce more than 15 K?

I don't have enough AC load to test that and I'm disconnected from the grid at my old generator switch, so no sell-back contract either.

That load is mostly the extra waterheater. Smartload starts at 99% charge (running open-loop with lower absorption voltages doesn't always trigger 100% charge).

 

[Tulex]

Can get the recommended fusible disconnect for significantly cheaper from this site.

SQUARE D D224NRB 200A-240V RT SW | Gordon Electric Supply, Inc.

SqD D224NRB General Duty 200A 240V 2-pole 3-wire Fusible Safety Switch. Nema 3R enclosure.

www.gordonelectricsupply.com

These things are HUGE! Is there any reason a 200 amp breaker box can't be used? Why fused, the panel box I would be taking it out of is a breaker.

 

[ncsolarelectric]

These things are HUGE! Is there any reason a 200 amp breaker box can't be used? Why fused, the panel box I would be taking it out of is a breaker.

Depends on your local utility requirements, but typically a line side tap requires a fault rating over 10kA, and a non-fused switch doesn't meet that spec. A breaker rated 40-100 kA would work, but some utilities require a "visible open" switch.

 

[Tulex]

Depends on your local utility requirements, but typically a line side tap requires a fault rating over 10kA, and a non-fused switch doesn't meet that spec. A breaker rated 40-100 kA would work, but some utilities require a "visible open" switch.

Thanks for the info. I'm not all that concerned with the local utility requirements, just the safety aspect. Both the boxes below meet the requirements for kA, Siemens at 22kA, Eaton at 10kA if you meant 10kA or above. It's actually cheaper to get the fused disconnect on Amazon, I'm just really limited on wall space where this is going.

https://www.amazon.com/Siemens-W0202MB1200CU-Outdoor-Circuit-Enclosure/dp/B0052MFWM2/ref=sr_1_7_mod_primary_new?crid=25K9BLUOJ1Y3L&keywords=200%2Bamp%2Bbreaker%2Bbox&qid=1680528287&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=200%2Bamp%2Bbreaker%2Bbox%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-7&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/EATON-CORPORATION-ECCVH200R-Industries-Breaker/dp/B00YQNUIAE/ref=sr_1_55_mod_primary_new?crid=25K9BLUOJ1Y3L&keywords=200+amp+breaker+box&qid=1680529419&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=200+amp+breaker+box%2Caps%2C109&sr=8-55

 

[Hedges]

A breaker will work for OCP and disconnect. I bought one for $185, to use as service entrance.
The question is whether your utility requires visible blade disconnect. If not required, they reserve the option to remove your meter in order to isolate.

Typically 22kA required for service disconnect, 10kA downstream of that. Most 200A main breakers are 22kA.

You may also prefer a fast fuse, which has a chance to protect parts of the inverter. Could also protect main breaker, so it is good for more than just one or two shorts.



Yes, non-fused would serve as disconnect too, if you find one that is available and reasonable. Typically similar price.
The fuse could provide faster over-current protection.

Here's what I bought, half the price of your links. This will be my service disconnect. Followed by 100A switch because my inverters don't have the 200A pass-through of yours.

Square D QO 200 Amp 2-Pole Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure with QOM2200VH Breaker QOM2E2200NRB - The Home Depot

The Square D by Schneider Electric QO 200 Amp Outdoor Circuit Breaker Enclosure includes a two-pole QOM2 frame sizes circuit breakers 100-225 amp capacity for use as an exterior disconnect. This breaker

www.homedepot.com

 

[Danke]

You may also prefer a fast fuse, which has a chance to protect parts of the inverter. Could also protect main breaker, so it is good for more than just one or two shorts.

Yes, non-fused would serve as disconnect too, if you find one that is available and reasonable. Typically similar price.
The fuse could provide faster over-current protection.

Yep, Sol-Ark wants a fused disconnect before inverters.

Since they sell both, what are the advantages of a 3-pole vs. a 2-pole disconnect. Do utilities sometimes require neutral to be disconnected too? Backfeed? Although the old method of just pulling the meter doesn’t disconect neutral, does it? But now with inverters it could?

 

[Oldphile]

These things are HUGE! Is there any reason a 200 amp breaker box can't be used? Why fused, the panel box I would be taking it out of is a breaker.

I went through this issue late last year. The installer used a 200 amp breaker as an external AC disconnect. He had been doing this for more than a decade. Some engineers at Eversource retired and suddenly this was unacceptable. My installer fought their decision for 6 weeks then replaced the disconnect with a visible (knife) switch. Got PTO December 29.

 

[Hedges]

You may find one cheaper on eBay searching for 200A safety 3R.
The "heavy duty" switches rated 600VDC are going to be larger and more expensive. A 2-pole 120/240VAC one should be more reasonable.

Most eBay listings I see are non-fused.
Fuse vs. breaker is not going to be mandatory, just a difference in protection (some equipment can fail, but not hazardously so long as rated for a particular fault current.)
Safety switch vs. breaker gives visible isolation, may be same gap clearance, maybe longer "creepage" over surface of insulator which could get burned and have carbon.

It seems that interlocked breakers have been allowed for generators. Maybe utility requires safety switch for inverters because they are electronic and software devices, and being deployed in massive quantities. More opportunities for malfunction.

Might as well just follow utility preference and best practices.
I will have 200A breaker first, and fast fused disconnect before PV. Surge arrestors after that.
I may try to add fuses for whole house in addition. (class T holders in the main breaker box.)

 

[Tulex]

Another question. What is different with the 15K than other inverters that I've looked at is that the main panel becomes your backup panel when on generator, or any power source for that matter. So, no critical load panel to size to your generator. I'm guessing that's where the Smartloads-14 comes into play. I noticed that Engineer775 (I think) left the Generac 7000 SMMs in place in one of his installs. They work by sensing a change in frequency. Is the generator going through the 15K direct pass through? If not, will the 15K let it drop frequency, or is that just going to happen regardless of how it goes through? And for battery back up too? Will frequency drop as batteries get low, like before it gets to a cut off point?

 

[629658]

Another question. What is different with the 15K than other inverters that I've looked at is that the main panel becomes your backup panel when on generator, or any power source for that matter. So, no critical load panel to size to your generator. I'm guessing that's where the Smartloads-14 comes into play. I noticed that Engineer775 (I think) left the Generac 7000 SMMs in place in one of his installs. They work by sensing a change in frequency. Is the generator going through the 15K direct pass through? If not, will the 15K let it drop frequency, or is that just going to happen regardless of how it goes through? And for battery back up too? Will frequency drop as batteries get low, like before it gets to a cut off point?

If the 15k controls the genset it only starts the generator when your SOC reaches a set point. It then comes on and charges your ESS to another set point and shuts down the genset. So the gen set only runs when your ESS is low. The rest of the time you’re operating on ESS. No frequency changes at all in regards to the generator.

The 15k sets between your meter base and your main panel. All sources of energy (PV, Grid, Storage and generator feed into the 15k. It manages all sources of energy to provide power out to your service panel. It is an amazing piece of equipment in my opinion and we love ours.

 

[Tulex]

Back to the fused disconnect. I asked Sol-Ark if it had to be a fuse, or if a breaker would be ok. Their reply:

The 15k provides an 200A pass through.
It would need to be on a 200A breaker or a fused disconnect.
Any smaller of a breaker will reduce 200A limit to the size of the breaker

 

[629658]

Back to the fused disconnect. I asked Sol-Ark if it had to be a fuse, or if a breaker would be ok. Their reply:

The 15k provides an 200A pass through.
It would need to be on a 200A breaker or a fused disconnect.
Any smaller of a breaker will reduce 200A limit to the size of the breaker

I used my ATS attached the generator to the 15k through it. Per the manual. Several reasons 1 Will not backfeed in a grid out, 2 left my gen port open for AC coupling in the future, 3 I already had an ATS installed.

 

[629658]

I used my ATS attached the generator to the 15k through it. Per the manual. Several reasons 1 Will not backfeed in a grid out, 2 left my gen port open for AC coupling in the future, 3 I already had an ATS installed.

Now I’m up for re-inspection in a few days and I’m certain they are going to question the ATS as a disconnect but I believe it qualifies. If they balk I have a manual bypass/disconnect next to the 15k and if that doesn’t work I’ll just install a 200a safety switch but only if I have to. They want a blade type disconnect within 10 ft of the meter base but have allowances for greater than 10 feet with the proper signage. I do have a blade type disconnect next to the Sol Ark. We will see how it goes. I have a pretty good utility and we have been a solar customer for 9 yrs. And it doesn’t hurt that their corporate marketing team is coming to our location on 4/11/23 to do a promotional film shoot highlighting our system.

 

[Hedges]

Or maybe it does hurt. Now everything has to look right

(Like Will's earlier videos where he had zip cord from breaker panel to loads.)

 

[Tulex]

Found the 15K at Tandem Solar for $7725. What I found interesting, and I emailed them about it, is that they have what appears to be a 12K pictured, as it has side vents. They assured me they are selling both the 12 and 15, and that $7725 is the 15K price.

Anyway, what I found interesting is the data sheet they have for the 15K. It's a beta sheet, the numbers are not the same as the sheet Sol-Ark has on their site. I believe I read, maybe in this thread, that some numbers were increased from undated firmware. I hope I'm safe to assume that all 15K units in the market are the same. I'd like to take advantage of the price.

 

[629658]

This is from my manual in September.