Thinking about wind?

[Zwy]

I also want to find out the actual cost of commercial wind turbine produced electricity, vs commercial solar panel produced electricity, but due to the hidden subsidies and (I believe) the fact that commercial wind turbines are way more expensive per kWh than solar panels, I can't find any figures.

Another big wind farm is being built not more than 4 miles from my house, this is number 3 within 20 miles of my house. From where I see things, it isn't about turning a profit from the power, it is about getting the federal money and that is what is paid out to "investors".

Biggest towers yet, over 600 feet tall. This one is really big dollars compared to the previous 2. I've done work for the company that built the first one, the second farm seemed like it wasn't as well funded. This last farm is like heading to the oil fields by Williston, SD and seeing that army in action.

 

[jasonojordan]

What I did when I was considering wind power was got a weather station so I could evaluate the wind patterns. Once doing that I was able to determine that it would not have a sufficient ROI to get one. I was looking to get one to help in the winter with supplying power to keep my batteries topped up in case of a extended power loss since I do not generate much in solar in the winter here in Minnesota.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5TEHLI?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_k0_1_12&amp=&crid=24TAVYNCRAWB9&amp=&sprefix=ambient+weat

 

[rhino]

I was looking to get one to help in the winter with supplying power to keep my batteries topped up in case of a extended power loss since I do not generate much in solar in the winter here in Minnesota.

Which is precisely why I'm adding another 14kW ground mount array which will more than compensate for any winter weather in Minnesota.

edit: and is cheaper then the inflation adjustment amount of money I had spent on a 100ft tower and 1kW wind turbine that was dismantled after multiple failures.

 

[brandnewb]

If you can't find a spec sheet like this for the wind turbine you're looking at then please take a serious pause before you spend any money.

The most important consideration for any wind turbine is swept area. Bottom line is that a wind turbine with a ~60" diameter cannot make more power or energy than a turbine with a 98" diameter.

you have my attention.

 

[brandnewb]

Even then... sanity check it here:

Wind Turbine Calculator

The wind turbine calculator finds the power output, efficiency, RPM, torque, and revenue of a wind turbine (either HAVT or VAWT).

www.omnicalculator.com

View attachment 132578

The arrow indicates the maximum amount of power available in a swept area of moving air.

Assuming 30% efficient, 12mph will produce 120W:

View attachment 132579

Shows about 150W - so likely more than 30% efficient, but 120W vs. 150W is a non-concern relative to the absurdity of some:

TESUP_Magnum5_Wind_Turbine_User_Manual.pdf

drive.google.com

View attachment 132580

(5.4m/s is about 12mph)

So Tesup's claim is that a SMALLER turbine can harvest 1000W of power at 12mph... more than 2X the power available in the air itself.

Tesup must mean "lying douchebag" in a foreign language.

I stopped trusting this calculator a while ago. As it seems to be ambiguous for VAWT.

 

[kanelr]

true no exaggeration. I saw a "funniest" video this weekend where a guy tried to do just what i did but with an old TV lattice type tower about 50 ' high with a bobcat alone. it folded and bent gloriously-glad we avoided that!!

 

[kanelr]

My hat is off to your brother for overcoming his setbacks. Funny thing about tilt towers - So I've been sort of in or around the small wind industry for many years. There's a saying... "there are those that have had a tilt tower crash and those that haven't... yet."

Regardless...

The point that I will continue to try to make with small wind is that there is fraction of a percent of people who are prepared for what they are up against with small wind. Jacob's is long gone so starting with one of them means a very tired used machine that hasn't worked for decades and will NEVER get of approval to be directly connected to the grid.

Comprare that to solar: After a few hours on YouTube and an Amazon account pretty much anyone with no tools or experience can successfully set up an AIO with a solar array and battery and get many years of service out of it.

agreed about tilt towers. but a lift to finish them is cheaper than a crane to stick build......What I didn't realize was that tilting with the units attached was very precarious, and installing them from a ladder impossible. We ended up with a lift after we raised the empty (therefore lighter) tower.

 

[Warpspeed]

My foundation will be solar, once the system is up and running, then I will get a HAWT to supplement charge a bit. I know its not very efficient, but I need to diversify my power sources as my house will be completely off grid. Once the HAWT is fully operational, then I can monitor it and check how turbulent the wind is and decided if a VAWT is worth the effort. I think its more a case of curiosity at this point in time

I suppose it depends on how often solar falls short and by how much and for how long.

If its only a for a couple of days at a time, several times through the worst of winter, then you probably do not need much extra.
A small gasoline generator, or a bigger battery may be all that is necessary.
If its really bad, then a lot more solar might be more helpful.

 

[Ptom]

The challenge that I quickly realized and continue to not know how to overcome with small wind is that the cost of the wind turbine itself is not the barrier. Everything else is where it gets quickly get expensive. The cost of the tower, the wire between the turbine and your power center and the crane required to get your tower in the air can dwarf the cost of the turbine.

This is the place where someone might pipe in about how they got a tower for free and thier brother in law has crane has but unless you can find yourself in that same situation you're likely looking at $5k or more for not much of a tower. You can buy a lot of solar panels or gas for your generator for that.

Most sites that people actually live in REQUIRE a tower of 75' or greater to get above any obstacles within ~300' (100m). Please price a tower capable of holding a 100lb or heavier turbine with a swept area of at least 80ft2 before your buy the turbine.

I'd love to put a turbine up here at my place but every time I think about it those nasty economics smack me in the face and since I'm grid with batteries it could only be treated as a very expensive hobby. Once I'm retired I might do it.

I've made several like the mono pole signs seen at gas stations etc., starting big dia. and getting smaller as they rise. Used pipe bought a local scrap yard for less than half the cost of new and just as good. They've been up for decades, with 12' diameter mills on them, no issues. I'll post some pictures when I update my current thread on this page, tomorrow.

 

[Ptom]

agreed about tilt towers. but a lift to finish them is cheaper than a crane to stick build......What I didn't realize was that tilting with the units attached was very precarious, and installing them from a ladder impossible. We ended up with a lift after we raised the empty (therefore lighter) tower.

I make my living with a crane service, a 30 ton boom truck with 110' of stick. If you had all your "ducks in a row", tower prepped and ready to lift, it'd be less than $500.00 here in Idaho.

 

[Warpspeed]

I suppose it would be possible the get a well dug.
Lower a long steel pipe down inside the steel well casing, and fit your horizontal axis turbine onto the top.
Then raise the whole thing straight up with a hand winch until the guy wires tighten up.

I have never seen this done, but with a bit of thought and proper design, it should be workable, especially with only two blades.

 

[Ptom]

My hat is off to your brother for overcoming his setbacks. Funny thing about tilt towers - So I've been sort of in or around the small wind industry for many years. There's a saying... "there are those that have had a tilt tower crash and those that haven't... yet."

Regardless...

The point that I will continue to try to make with small wind is that there is fraction of a percent of people who are prepared for what they are up against with small wind. Jacob's is long gone so starting with one of them means a very tired used machine that hasn't worked for decades and will NEVER get of approval to be directly connected to the grid.

Comprare that to solar: After a few hours on YouTube and an Amazon account pretty much anyone with no tools or experience can successfully set up an AIO with a solar array and battery and get many years of service out of it.

Not that hard to grid connect really, any wind turbine. IF you use a Outback battery based grid inverter like I use on my 900 watt 24 VDC hydro system. Plus, since it's a 3500 watt unit, I have misc. solar panels also involved, another 1500 watts or so, configured for 24 VDC. A Morningstar load diverter shunts "excess" power from the (in my case) very small battery bank, just enough for a buffer) to the inverter, the UL approved inverter sends it on to the grid. But for sure, PV pencils out more bang for the buck every time. I'm hooked on minimal batteries, as small a bank as I can get away with (2 100 AH 12 volts), just to keep the inverter happy, and grid tie, after 28 years fully off grid. My utility never gets to a 100% SOC, so no wasted power, a maintenance free battery of unlimited size, with 100% efficiency, that never wears out, and that takes up no room!

 

[kanelr]

I make my living with a crane service, a 30 ton boom truck with 110' of stick. If you had all your "ducks in a row", tower prepped and ready to lift, it'd be less than $500.00 here in Idaho.

exactly!. Example I want to own a bobcat, I would use it 60 hours a year. Buy one at $25,000 (used-good) or two week bobcat rental ( 40/hr allowed per week) 800 +/- . It would take 13 years for the bobcat to "pay for itself" in my example. And this is coming from guy with a tilt down tower.......................................theoretically.

 

[kanelr]

I see you are in a different hemisphere. Love the emogi -........I am now an international comedian..............

 

[cockatoo]

Tesup must mean "lying douchebag" in a foreign language.

At least the Tesup curve is a plausible shape. Can anyone tell me what on Earth is happening with the Makemu Eolo curve? (OK it's pretty rough - but the curves they offer for the 1kW and 2kW models are a similar shape).

 

[kanelr]

JUST STARTED NEW THREAD ABOUT GETTING UP TO THE TOP OF THE TOWER PLEASE PARTICIPATE DIDNT WANT TO HIJACK
search " Adding a man lift/ service lift to a backyard tower" in the wind forum

Adding a man lift/ service lift to a backyard tower

Hi. so we have been talking and laughing about the trick of tilting down small towers (50-100') for service. I must repair after storms so here is what i think i want to so -retrofit while I have the lift and am changing from two turbines on a "T "mast down to one larger unit YES THE TREES ARE...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Zenithund]

I guess it depends on the frequency, extent and duration of the solar deficit.

 

[Zwy]

My hat is off to your brother for overcoming his setbacks. Funny thing about tilt towers - So I've been sort of in or around the small wind industry for many years. There's a saying... "there are those that have had a tilt tower crash and those that haven't... yet."

Well, he's been at it since 2009. I guess you can see how it is done.

 

[brandnewb]

ok, I will recognize my superiors when I see them.

I thought I was doing great with my small town turbine.

But I will hang on for dear life as my energy needs, and to a smaller extend reputation, depend on it.

 

[brandnewb]

btw @Warpspeed I hope you have gathered that not only you stood me corrected regarding the most practical magnet arrangement I also creditit you for it and adopted it.