Who is still building DIY batteries

[Steve_S]

I'd like to add another battery to house system and I have the shop to switch to solar so it might be a good deal for me to have pallets delivered. Amy is working on a quote for shipping, it will be interesting to see what she comes up with.

I know there are different things with regards to shipping to USA vs Canada vs EU as everyone has their own "special touch" (ruckus stuckus frickus fruckus) but it is what it is. Things delivered to me always get a remote fee added and heavy bulk always gets a loader fee but now the Couriers are more familiar with me and that helps.

 

[Boron]

I have been following along that thread for over a year now, ordered some parts for the comms for the JK.
{+1 for the JK BMS = it just works!}

Serious approach , thats the way. I havent yet seen anyone comment on data logging systems from monitoring battery banks typically say 1hour samples over a year. That .csv data storage is trivial btw ca 3k records easy fit on a USB. I have been trialing systems and have a jaundiced view so far cos they have been unreliable via a conventional Window PC method - eg stop recording, spoil data records etc. I would prefer a standalone system. Anyone tried Picolog? https://www.picotech.com/data-logger/picolog-1000-series/multi-channel-daq

 

[Danke]

$2328 before shipping with EVE Grade A 280Ah cells, JK 200A BMS, case and completely assembled. She would take $60 off as I've bought from her before.

Buying cells at $130/each x 16= $2080 plus shipping
BMS $125 to $175 plus shipping
Case $235 plus shipping

Cheaper to buy assembled by about $100 plus it is all put together.

I'm checking to see if I buy 4 or 5 or 6 what the freight will be.

Edit: She will give a better price with multiples.

Check out these, about $1000 cheaper.

51.2v 280ah $1160 + ~$350 DDP shipping.

Hithium Cells used in Server Rack Battery

I read other threads that say Hithium is rather scammy. But the company looks legit in building large power systems. This battery brand was previously one of the factories that produced batteries for CATL. https://hithium.com/en/product/cells-modules Anyhoo, I have not bought these, but got...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Zwy]

Check out these, about $1000 cheaper.

51.2v 280ah $1296 + ~$350 DDP shipping.

Hithium Cells used in Server Rack Battery

I read other threads that say Hithium is rather scammy. But the company looks legit in building large power systems. This battery brand was previously one of the factories that produced batteries for CATL. https://hithium.com/en/product/cells-modules Anyhoo, I have not bought these, but got...

diysolarforum.com

You can certainly try them and report back.

Usually when things are too good to be true, I find it isn't what I thought it would be.

 

[Danke]

You can certainly try them and report back.

Usually when things are too good to be true, I find it isn't what I thought it would be.

Don’t have a forklift. Getting ones with wheels.

 

[Zwy]

Amy finally received the freight quote for the fully assembled batteries.

The freight to your door:

1 pack--$466

4 packs--$1426

5 packs--$1748

6 packs--$2070

For 1 battery with just a small discount, it is $2794
For 4 batteries it comes to $2683 each, same discount for me as the battery without freight.
For 5 it is $2627 each, she is willing to discount another $50 for 5 or more.
For 6 $2623 with the extra discount.

 

[a619]

Amy finally received the freight quote for the fully assembled batteries.

The freight to your door:

1 pack--$466

4 packs--$1426

5 packs--$1748

6 packs--$2070

For 1 battery with just a small discount, it is $2794
For 4 batteries it comes to $2683 each, same discount for me as the battery without freight.
For 5 it is $2627 each, she is willing to discount another $50 for 5 or more.
For 6 $2623 with the extra discount.

This is very much in-line with what I got from Seplos. A fully assembled vertical case with V3 BMS and grade A EVE 304 cells with reports for ~$2750 delivered.

 

[JJJJ]

Hoping tracking is correct. If so should see my Eve 304 8s cells, Bms and battery pack within the week. Anticipation…

 

[JJJJ]

Just received my battery cells, BMS and battery case from Amy Wan.

Portable Power Station WIP

I wanted to share my journey to build a portable power station. The overall specs will be a DIY 8s 24 volt battery with the JK active balancer. The current plan is to mount this on a portable dolly and have it tie into a Victron Multiplus II inverter charger. In its current design it will be...

diysolarforum.com

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Just starting out.

Lots to learn on here.

I have my solar panels and inverters on the way for my hybrid grid tied solark inverters. Planning 72- 390 watt panels on my roof. Massive energy needs in my house of 5 girls plus wife.

I have batteries on the way later this month from 18650- 304ah 3.2V eve

Planning to build 8 - 48v batteries.

I have 8- 100a overkill bms that have arrived.

I was planning on just a big heavy duty storage rack for all the batteries.

I need advice on all other odds and ends.

I have two solark 15ks. Looks like they need two battery inputs each for pos and neg leads.

What is the best way to connect these. Midnite solar battery combiner box?

I have been trying to find everything else I need based on carefully reading on this forum, watching Ray on YT, lots of Will's stuff too.

I may need to be talked to very simply here, dumb it down by all means.

Dumb questions I need help with:

1. I assume everyone here would agree that I need to test capacity, then top balance for all of these cells? I assume with the 10a power supplies this will take me weeks. I also am guessing that I need to get a ebc a40l tester that will allow me to know if I have what I was sold

2. Do I need 100a breakers on the positive leads for each battery before they get to the big bus bars that will combine all of my batteries together? If so, what is the best dc breaker to buy?

3. Where do T class fuses go?

4. What is a shunt and do I need one? Suggestions?

What else am I missing here as far as major supplies or

 

[a619]

Sol-Ark 15k can charge/ discharge at 275A. You have 2 of those, so these 600Amp bus-bars should be sufficient. They have 12 studs, so you should be able to parallel all 8 batteries and then 2 cables each to both of your inverters.

600A 12 Stud Busbars | Red & Black Kit

Manage high-current electrical connections efficiently with the 600A 12 Stud Busbars in a Red & Black Kit, ensuring organized and reliable power distribution in your electrical setup.

signaturesolar.com

Of course, Midnight Solar’s 1000 Amp combiner box would be a better choice, but it’s a lot more expensive.

There are more knowledgeable folks on the forum, but here’s my take on your questions:

1. Capacity testing cells is not necessary. There is split opinion about top-balancing. If you throw in an active balancer in your battery build, you can avoid this step and only intervene on the packs that do need it.
2. I would replace DC breaker with a class-T fuse and a high amp disconnect for each battery, unless you have some other mechanism to disengage batteries individually.
3. For 100Amp BMS, you should add 125Amp fuses b/w each battery and bus bar. You can also add additional 350Amp fuses b/w busbar and each inverter, but these are not absolutely needed.
4. A shunt helps keep track of the power to and from batteries. You can usually monitor these remotely and they’re very handy, but not absolutely needed for anything except monitoring purpose.

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Sol-Ark 15k can charge/ discharge at 275A. You have 2 of those, so these 600Amp bus-bars should be sufficient. They have 12 studs, so you should be able to parallel all 8 batteries and then 2 cables each to both of your inverters.

600A 12 Stud Busbars | Red & Black Kit

Manage high-current electrical connections efficiently with the 600A 12 Stud Busbars in a Red & Black Kit, ensuring organized and reliable power distribution in your electrical setup.

signaturesolar.com

Of course, Midnight Solar’s 1000 Amp combiner box would be a better choice, but it’s a lot more expensive.

There are more knowledgeable folks on the forum, but here’s my take on your questions:

1. Capacity testing cells is not necessary. There is split opinion about top-balancing. If you throw in an active balancer in your battery build, you can avoid this step and only intervene on the packs that do need it.
2. I would replace DC breaker with a class-T fuse and a high amp disconnect for each battery, unless you have some other mechanism to disengage batteries individually.
3. For 100Amp BMS, you should add 125Amp fuses b/w each battery and bus bar. You can also add additional 350Amp fuses b/w busbar and each inverter, but these are not absolutely needed.
4. A shunt helps keep track of the power to and from batteries. You can usually monitor these remotely and they’re very handy, but not absolutely needed for anything except monitoring purpose.

Really appreciate the help.

So if I am following correctly, you suggest I add a 125 amp t class fuse to each battery and a high amp disconnect switch.

I assume those are on the positive leads before they reach the main bus bar or somewhere else?

Is there a product you would recommend , I have seen blue sea for fuses and ANL? What about the disconnect? Is that like the Anderson connectors I see on lots of builds?

Any opinion on a shunt to purchase, i have seen a lot of victron smart shunts around, but cant remember seeing much else?

 

[webbbn]

Having recently gone through the process of top-balancing without the luxury of doing it in parallel, I would highly recommend parallel top balancing if you can do it, and if you're building from individual cells, then you should be able to. I also highly recommend the EBC-A40L. I assume you could use if for parallel top balancing, but it's also very good at adjusting individual cells after you build the pack.

I think I would have opted for BMS that support higher current, with comparable wire/fuses/breakers. You have alot of parallel batteries, so you can easily handle the current requirements with all of them humming along, but, the BMS current limits limit you to not much more than the maximum that you can charge/discharge, even though the batteries could support more. That could become an issue if any of the batteries go offline for some reason.

 

[Pappion]

Inside my DIY batteries, with 100-125A BMS, I have 150A ANL fuses. Wish I knew about LET fuses, 160A max. Seems better than Class T and only $11-$15 USD. But I can't find a fuse holder. 1/4 wide slotted holes. Can be soldered down. Maybe alter an exsisting fuse holder.

 

[TimE]

Inside my DIY batteries, with 100-125A BMS, I have 150A ANL fuses. Wish I knew about LET fuses, 160A max. Seems better than Class T and only $11-$15 USD. But I can't find a fuse holder. 1/4 wide slotted holes. Can be soldered down. Maybe alter an exsisting fuse holder.

I just installed a Siba Nh00 gG industrial fuse on my second lithium battery. Like class T but more easily available in Europe and cheaper.

 

[JJJJ]

Overkill is a very good BMS. If your batteries are well matched and batched then they could potentially do the job. I have two packs on them. The challenge is when the cells get larger, a passive balancer might have more difficulty keeping up with possible cells that charge at different rates. Also over time a cell might tend to wander, this is sometimes called a runner.

There are a number of active balancers discussed on this site. Some work alongside something like the Overkill. I elected the JK active BMS which performs both the BMS and balancing functions. I had a pack that would get out of balance even though I did perform a top balance. The BMS active balancer is keeping all the cells in line. In the future I will likely update my other BMS as well.

Victron sells a Lynx Distributor which includes fuses. Might be worth looking at.

Victron and Pike Industries sell excellent bus bars.

I got my shut off from Victron. Blue Seas also sells one.

When considering wire sizes I prefer to go with the larger size. It is better to place the strain on fuses and breakers and not the wires or connections. Fuses are an important safety net.

Make sure your lugs are properly sized to your terminals. A loose fit is a recipe for trouble down the road.

I did some research and borrowed a torque wrench to make sure my connections were set properly.

Midnite sells excellent equipment. They have been in the market for a long time, provide excellent documentation and their equipment has withstood the tests of time in the field.

We have a wide range of members on this forum. Some are here as a hobby. Others are entirely off grid. A lot of others are in the middle. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

Might I suggest submitting a drawing which describes your plan? Sometimes a picture says a 1000 works.

 

[TimE]

Overkill is a very good BMS. If your batteries are well matched and batched then they could potentially do the job. I have two packs on them. The challenge is when the cells get larger, a passive balancer might have more difficulty keeping up with possible cells that charge at different rates. Also over time a cell might tend to wander, this is sometimes called a runner.

There are a number of active balancers discussed on this site. Some work alongside something like the Overkill. I elected the JK active BMS which performs both the BMS and balancing functions. I had a pack that would get out of balance even though I did perform a top balance. The BMS active balancer is keeping all the cells in line. In the future I will likely update my other BMS as well.

Victron sells a Lynx Distributor which includes fuses. Might be worth looking at.

Victron and Pike Industries sell excellent bus bars.

I got my shut off from Victron. Blue Seas also sells one.

When considering wire sizes I prefer to go with the larger size. It is better to place the strain on fuses and breakers and not the wires or connections. Fuses are an important safety net.

Make sure your lugs are properly sized to your terminals. A loose fit is a recipe for trouble down the road.

I did some research and borrowed a torque wrench to make sure my connections were set properly.

Midnite sells excellent equipment. They have been in the market for a long time, provide excellent documentation and their equipment has withstood the tests of time in the field.

We have a wide range of members on this forum. Some are here as a hobby. Others are entirely off grid. A lot of others are in the middle. There is a wealth of knowledge here.

Might I suggest submitting a drawing which describes your plan? Sometimes a picture says a 1000 works.

I just made my busbars from copper bar. I drilled and tapped for M8 metric bolts. Busbars mounted on nylon bar at each end. Works nicely and way cheaper

 

[Pappion]

I just installed a Siba Nh00 gG industrial fuse on my second lithium battery. Like class T but more easily available in Europe and cheaper.

What did you use for a fuse holder?

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Having recently gone through the process of top-balancing without the luxury of doing it in parallel, I would highly recommend parallel top balancing if you can do it, and if you're building from individual cells, then you should be able to. I also highly recommend the EBC-A40L. I assume you could use if for parallel top balancing, but it's also very good at adjusting individual cells after you build the pack.

I think I would have opted for BMS that support higher current, with comparable wire/fuses/breakers. You have alot of parallel batteries, so you can easily handle the current requirements with all of them humming along, but, the BMS current limits limit you to not much more than the maximum that you can charge/discharge, even though the batteries could support more. That could become an issue if any of the batteries go offline for some reason.

Doing my best to digest this. Not sure I really understand everything.

I think I correctly understand the top balancing in parallel at 3.65 v prior to assembling all the cells in series. I will definitely get the ebc a40l as recommended.

What is a good top balancer I can add to the system?

I am not sure I understand the comment about getting more current out of batteries to the inverters. I have seen people getting bms rated to 200a here, but because I am building a bank of 8 48v battery bank, I assumed (this is where trouble starts) that the inverter max was the limiting factor.

I assumed that the 275 amps for charge and discharge was the max each inverter can handle. So I thought that each of 8 batteries in parallel with a 100 amp bms would be more than sufficient to charge and discharge through the inverter.

My dumb explanation was that each battery could discharge 100 amps and that would be 800 amps total for 8 batteries, but the inverter limit is 2 solarks x 275 amp each, so the max in or out is 550 amps.

So unless two of my batteries went offline out of 8, I would still be limited to 275 amps for each inverter.

That may make no sense at all to the people who actually know what they are doing.

I am trying to sort through all of these great comments. I will do my best to sketch and embarrassed myself with my current plan and let the forum dissect it to make it actually work.

 

[webbbn]

Doing my best to digest this. Not sure I really understand everything.

I think I correctly understand the top balancing in parallel at 3.65 v prior to assembling all the cells in series. I will definitely get the ebc a40l as recommended.

What is a good top balancer I can add to the system?

I am not sure I understand the comment about getting more current out of batteries to the inverters. I have seen people getting bms rated to 200a here, but because I am building a bank of 8 48v battery bank, I assumed (this is where trouble starts) that the inverter max was the limiting factor.

I assumed that the 275 amps for charge and discharge was the max each inverter can handle. So I thought that each of 8 batteries in parallel with a 100 amp bms would be more than sufficient to charge and discharge through the inverter.

My dumb explanation was that each battery could discharge 100 amps and that would be 800 amps total for 8 batteries, but the inverter limit is 2 solarks x 275 amp each, so the max in or out is 550 amps.

So unless two of my batteries went offline out of 8, I would still be limited to 275 amps for each inverter.

That may make no sense at all to the people who actually know what they are doing.

I am trying to sort through all of these great comments. I will do my best to sketch and embarrassed myself with my current plan and let the forum dissect it to make it actually work.

I don't know of a better top balancer than the ebc-a40l. I have not been through the process of parallel balancing, so others might be a better guide, but I believe it would be one of the better choices for doing parallel balancing.

I first learned about it from Andy and the Off Grid Garage YouTube channel, and I would recommend going through some of his videos, since he does a good job of explaining all the ins and outs of batteries, and he does many real tests, which I like.

You're analysis is pretty much correct on the current analysis, but the currents are never going to balance perfectly, and if you end up with a battery or two offline, and get enough of an imbalance, and a large load, you could start tripping them, and then it's all going to go down. When you have up to a 550A load, it's not hard to imagine one of the batteries wanting to pass more than 100A.

 

[Pappion]

I just installed a Siba Nh00 gG industrial fuse on my second lithium battery. Like class T but more easily available in Europe and cheaper.

What did you use for a fuse holder?

 

[JJJJ]

Batteries in parallel share the load and they tend to do it proportionally. In other words, a higher capacity battery tends to loan more current than a lower capacity battery (in amps).

If you have a multitude of batteries, then yes, your inverter or inverters will be the limiting factor. Also, this depends on what you are powering. If you are only running a few things then the actual power outage will be less.

If you search the threads there are discussions on doing an energy audit. This helps one decide how much power is needed.

Also, one consideration might be to start small and work up. There are large systems discussed on this forum but many members have countless hours of experience and have added on during their journey.

As mentioned, quite of few have DIYed their own bus bars. I chose off the shelf for time, convenience and the fact that I wanted to put a cover over mine. I did spend more, however it helps me personally sleep better at night.

There are a fair number of products discussed on this forum. I personally use Victron but there are a number of high quality products discussed here. There are many who can answer your inverter questions either in another thread or starting a new one.

If purchasing a bench charger one consideration is the battery leads that come with many of them. Many are too thin. Many of us have cobbled together a spare set of cables that better carry the 10 amps that many of them provide. This may not apply to the model discussed above.

I have always top balanced my batteries and there is a lot of discussion on this. Some have decided to let their active balancer do the work. To this end active balancers were not readily available when I first started this journey. If your journey does permit a top balance it is a good learning experience. I would suggest reading some older threads. It is important to know that when charging up a pack to the 3.65 volts or so that the pack tends to settle back to 3.4 v. This is normal. If you search you will find volumes of invaluable information on batteries and charging.

Pursuing this path can be exciting and challenging at times. Also please keep in mind when watching videos on line that many of the presenters have many many hours of practical experience and background.

There are countless other suggestions, but I hope this helps.

 

[TimE]

What did you use for a fuse holder?

I bought a couple off ebay. Never used. The pair were £20.
I also got 3x160A fuses for £24

 

[JJJJ]

I did want to add that nothing beats a good system like timeless reading, asking questions and starting small with practical experience.

 

[Steve_S]

Due Diligence = Learning the most you can about a subject / tech prior to diving in. It's typically a 6-month (the real keen learners) to 12-month learning curve. Sorry No Instant Rice Society solution.