Warning when buying EVE LF280K Grade-A cells with new terminal type!

[Offthewall]

Hi guys, first post here. Great read. I will be picking up 64 of these new style 280 cells from 18650 store in a few days hopefully! I’ll be sure to check them for bent or crooked terminals.

 

[littleharbor2]

Welcome to the forum. Interested to hear how your transaction works out.

 

[Wet1]

Just checked every cell, no damage, and all 16 are at 3.295v, I've no equipment to measure anything else at the moment.

Only thing I have noticed is that the terminals are not welded on straight - see attached.

@Wet1 Flexible busbars - edit: looks like they do ones for the new style terminal - see link below video.

8.63US $ 3% OFF|BusBar Flexible M6 Connection Copper Plate LF280 DIY 3.2V 280Ah 12V 24V 48V LF280K LiFePO4 Battery Cell Connection Plate BusBars|Rechargeable Batteries| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Thank you for the link, I had not seen the "flexible" busbars for the twin stud post design listed yet!

On a related note, I very briefly got my hands on one of these (although with the single holes) and I wanted to see just how "flexible" they really were. While they are reasonably flexible in the Z axis (which is of little use IMO), they do not seem to have much (if any) give in the X/Y axis, by hand anyway. I question how much "relief" they actually offer in a practical use, although on paper they have to be an improvement over the otherwise rigid traditional flat-stock bars.

Any addition input on the true relieve these "flexible" bars offer in real world use would be beneficial! I've heard the cells expand a mm or more across their traditional SoC range. This is significant, both cell to cell, as well as across the length of 16 cells in series! That has to be an lot of stress on the terminals if there's no give in the bars. I'd love to see some terminal to terminal dimensional measurements compared in a spring loaded fixture using flat stock, these "flexible" busbars, and using a truly flexible multi-strand wire busbar.

 

[Ron-ski]

I would of thought they would compress slightly being a hump back flexible bridge design, try sticking one in a vice and see if it will compress, if you can keep it in there.

 

[Wet1]

I'm sure they will compress and extend with enough force. The question is, how much force is required? I couldn't seemingly get it to do so by hand, although again in the pointless Z axis I could feel some flexibility. Some loadcell data would be useful. If I had access to one for testing, I could do some testing in the lab, but I don't have one to test with.

 

[Wet1]

Thinking about this more, if anyone has a spare "flexible" busbar (preferably two) that they'd be willing to donate for testing, I'd be happy to put one in the lab and see how much tension is required to stretch it and how much related movement is seen under "x" tension. The tensile strength would be done on an Instron. I might be able to measure the compression as well (with a second bar).

 

[Lampard Lei]

Hi,

I would like to take this opportunity to warn all consumers and companies considering purchasing EVE LF280K Grade-A cells with the new type of terminal.

The reason is that EVE has not adapted the packaging in which the battery cells are shipped.

As you can see in the pictures, the terminal is the highest non-flexible point. On top of the terminals there is then an 8mm polyfoam for protection and then the box is closed. Any force on the top of the box will be distributed to the cell terminals.

When ordering a full sea pallet, 144pcs LF280K cells, several cartons are stacked on top of each other. When the carton absorbs moisture during the sea transport, strength is lost, and with the small margin that exists in the height, the weight of the stacked cartons ends up on the terminals of the cells.

The terminals are subjected to stress, and the Grade-A cells you bought are now Grade-D cells or should possibly be discarded immediately.

I think it is unbelievably bad that the cells are packaged in a way where the weight from cartons above ends up on the terminals.

We have an order placed 1 month ago directly with EVE for 144pcs LF280K cells. These will be shipped in the coming days. EVE's official sales representative is of the opinion that we should have specified when ordering if we wanted them better packaged. And if there has been stress on the terminals during shipping, which might lead to malfunction of the battery packs in our product, "it will be covered by thier 1 year warranty". Well, that will not help us.

As we refuse the cells being shipped like this, they have now offered to put the cartons in wooden boxes if we pay extra. However, uncertain if this can be resolved as the sea pallet has already been shipped to the CIF agent.

Images below are from a shipment we received a week ago, all the terminals are bent due to force from above. These are EVE LF280K cells bought via a distributor in EU, which claim to also buy directly from EVE. I have sent these images to EVE which has confirmed that the 144pcs cells in our order are packaged the same way.

I'm kinda upset that one of the biggest LFP manufacturers in China act like a random scam guy on alibaba, and has such poor packaging that the integrity of the cells can't be garanteed upon arrival.

View attachment 105947View attachment 105948

My name is Lampard Lei. I am the so called sales manager in his essay. Although I disagree with every word he said, I swear to defend his right to speak, but every word he said will be refuted with facts. The customer's original words are in italic, my comments are in bold. Due to the limitation of maximum 1000 words. I will reply in several times.

 

[Lampard Lei]

My name is Lampard Lei. I am the so called sales manager in his essay. Although I disagree with every word he said, I swear to defend his right to speak, but every word he said will be refuted with facts. The customer's original words are in italic, my comments are in bold. Due to the limitation of maximum 1000 words. I will reply in several times.

I would like to take this opportunity to warn all consumers and companies considering purchasing EVE LF280K Grade-A cells with the new type of terminal

.--------------[Lampard] the type is not new, we have this screw adapter for years.



As you can see in the pictures, the terminal is the highest non-flexible point. On top of the terminals there is then an 8mm polyfoam for protection and then the box is closed. Any force on the top of the box will be distributed to the cell terminals.

-------------[Lampard] this picture is not a photo taken from the cells purchased from EVE, but from a reseller in Europe, who has no connection at all with EVE. secondly, The reseller offers no extra protection to when he took the cartons out of the pallet and directly ship to the customer by DHL/DPD/UPS. In EVE's own experiences, due to the weight of the goods, these type of shipments always causes damages, so EVE always offer extra protection to the few-cartons-delivery(see attached packing method). It is the UN38.3 ccompliant cartons inside an extra carton and polyfoam in between and with extra corner protections.

 

[Lampard Lei]

I would like to take this opportunity to warn all consumers and companies considering purchasing EVE LF280K Grade-A cells with the new type of terminal

.--------------[Lampard] the type is not new, we have this screw adapter for years.



As you can see in the pictures, the terminal is the highest non-flexible point. On top of the terminals there is then an 8mm polyfoam for protection and then the box is closed. Any force on the top of the box will be distributed to the cell terminals.

-------------[Lampard] this picture is not a photo taken from the cells purchased from EVE, but from a reseller in Europe, who has no connection at all with EVE. secondly, The reseller offers no extra protection to when he took the cartons out of the pallet and directly ship to the customer by DHL/DPD/UPS. In EVE's own experiences, due to the weight of the goods, these type of shipments always causes damages, so EVE always offer extra protection to the few-cartons-delivery(see attached packing method). It is the UN38.3 ccompliant cartons inside an extra carton and polyfoam in between and with extra corner protections.

 

[Lampard Lei]

When ordering a full sea pallet, 144pcs LF280K cells, several cartons are stacked on top of each other. When the carton absorbs moisture during the sea transport, strength is lost, and with the small margin that exists in the height, the weight of the stacked cartons ends up on the terminals of the cells.

----------[Lampard] this is a very unprofessional saying. The cartons are manufactured and tested according to UN38.3, Part 3, paragraph 38.3, Manual of Tests and Criteria for the Transport of Dangerous Goods. Before the shipment, the Chinese custom also proformed an inspection to the goods and the packing, and a certificate must be acquired from that inspection before the custom can release the goods for exporting. EVE has been shipping worldwide in the past 21 years, without any problems. There are two type of packing methods, one is with cartons and pallet, the other is wood box. Pallets are cheaper and lighter but offer sufficient protection, wood boxes are more expensive and heavier and offers stronger protection. So usually we assume the packing is with UN8.3 compliant cartons and pallets, which are clearly stated in the PI sent to the customer.

 

[Lampard Lei]

When ordering a full sea pallet, 144pcs LF280K cells, several cartons are stacked on top of each other. When the carton absorbs moisture during the sea transport, strength is lost, and with the small margin that exists in the height, the weight of the stacked cartons ends up on the terminals of the cells.

----------[Lampard] this is a very unprofessional saying. The cartons are manufactured and tested according to UN38.3, Part 3, paragraph 38.3, Manual of Tests and Criteria for the Transport of Dangerous Goods. Before the shipment, the Chinese custom also proformed an inspection to the goods and the packing, and a certificate must be acquired from that inspection before the custom can release the goods for exporting. EVE has been shipping worldwide in the past 21 years, without any problems. There are two type of packing methods, one is with cartons and pallet, the other is wood box. Pallets are cheaper and lighter but offer sufficient protection, wood boxes are more expensive and heavier and offers stronger protection. So usually we assume the packing is with UN8.3 compliant cartons and pallets, which are clearly stated in the PI sent to the customer.

The customer approves the PI and made the payment according to that. This shows the customer is agreed with the packing methods.

After the production are finished and custom inspection certificate are acquired and the goods were sent to the warehouse in the habour area and waiting to be loaded to the vessel for shipment, the customer started to ask for change due to his own experiences with the reseller who has not connection at all with EVE.

 

[Lampard Lei]

The customer approves the PI and made the payment according to that. This shows the customer is agreed with the packing methods.

After the production are finished and custom inspection certificate are acquired and the goods were sent to the warehouse in the habour area and waiting to be loaded to the vessel for shipment, the customer started to ask for change due to his own experiences with the reseller who has not connection at all with EVE.

The terminals are subjected to stress, and the Grade-A cells you bought are now Grade-D cells or should possibly be discarded immediately.

----------[Lampard] There is no such classification in EVE, and grade is according to the electricity performances not according to the adapters. And this is based on the customer's own assumption and illusion, and not the fact.



I think it is unbelievably bad that the cells are packaged in a way where the weight from cartons above ends up on the terminals.

---------- [Lampard] The customer has his rights to believe or unbelieve anything. the customers can choose from the two options of packing methods if he worries too much, rather than complain on the forums.

 

[Lampard Lei]

The terminals are subjected to stress, and the Grade-A cells you bought are now Grade-D cells or should possibly be discarded immediately.

----------[Lampard] There is no such classification in EVE, and grade is according to the electricity performances not according to the adapters. And this is based on the customer's own assumption and illusion, and not the fact.



I think it is unbelievably bad that the cells are packaged in a way where the weight from cartons above ends up on the terminals.

---------- [Lampard] The customer has his rights to believe or unbelieve anything. the customers can choose from the two options of packing methods if he worries too much, rather than complain on the forums.

We have an order placed 1 month ago directly with EVE for 144pcs LF280K cells. These will be shipped in the coming days. EVE's official sales representative is of the opinion that we should have specified when ordering if we wanted them better packaged. And if there has been stress on the terminals during shipping, which might lead to malfunction of the battery packs in our product, "it will be covered by thier 1 year warranty". Well, that will not help us.

----------[Lampard] I did not say that. The limiations of the one-year-warranty is strictly defined in the EVE's Specifications. I did ask the customer to sign the "LFP battery cell finish goods appearance inspection standard", which is meant to protect the customer's rights, so if anything different from the standard EVE will compensate. He needs to sign before shipment and but he refused.

 

[Lampard Lei]

We have an order placed 1 month ago directly with EVE for 144pcs LF280K cells. These will be shipped in the coming days. EVE's official sales representative is of the opinion that we should have specified when ordering if we wanted them better packaged. And if there has been stress on the terminals during shipping, which might lead to malfunction of the battery packs in our product, "it will be covered by thier 1 year warranty". Well, that will not help us.

----------[Lampard] I did not say that. The limiations of the one-year-warranty is strictly defined in the EVE's Specifications. I did ask the customer to sign the "LFP battery cell finish goods appearance inspection standard", which is meant to protect the customer's rights, so if anything different from the standard EVE will compensate. He needs to sign before shipment and but he refused.

As we refuse the cells being shipped like this, they have now offered to put the cartons in wooden boxes if we pay extra. However, uncertain if this can be resolved as the sea pallet has already been shipped to the CIF agent.

----------[Lampard] We offer this as a compromise based on the good faith of business, not because we think our packing method based on pallatized cartons will necessary cause damges. See the extra work the customer brought to us due to his own decison to change the packig method in the warehouse by the habour: We have to prepare all the custom paperworks again even if it is a 144 pcs small order.

 

[Lampard Lei]

As we refuse the cells being shipped like this, they have now offered to put the cartons in wooden boxes if we pay extra. However, uncertain if this can be resolved as the sea pallet has already been shipped to the CIF agent.

----------[Lampard] We offer this as a compromise based on the good faith of business, not because we think our packing method based on pallatized cartons will necessary cause damges. See the extra work the customer brought to us due to his own decison to change the packig method in the warehouse by the habour: We have to prepare all the custom paperworks again even if it is a 144 pcs small order.

Images below are from a shipment we received a week ago, all the terminals are bent due to force from above. These are EVE LF280K cells bought via a distributor in EU, which claim to also buy directly from EVE. I have sent these images to EVE which has confirmed that the 144pcs cells in our order are packaged the same way.

--------[Lampard] the customer did not tell the truth. The images are the goods he bought from the reseller without extra carton protections. Anyone can claim to have bought from EVE, but as we uses SAP, Microsoft Dynamic CRM, we found no trade record about this reseller.

I have not confessed so. According to the limited images the customer provided, the foam on the top is obviously thinner than our foam. And most importanly, the damages are largely caused by end delivery.

 

[Lampard Lei]

Images below are from a shipment we received a week ago, all the terminals are bent due to force from above. These are EVE LF280K cells bought via a distributor in EU, which claim to also buy directly from EVE. I have sent these images to EVE which has confirmed that the 144pcs cells in our order are packaged the same way.

--------[Lampard] the customer did not tell the truth. The images are the goods he bought from the reseller without extra carton protections. Anyone can claim to have bought from EVE, but as we uses SAP, Microsoft Dynamic CRM, we found no trade record about this reseller.

I have not confessed so. According to the limited images the customer provided, the foam on the top is obviously thinner than our foam. And most importanly, the damages are largely caused by end delivery.

I'm kinda upset that one of the biggest LFP manufacturers in China act like a random scam guy on alibaba, and has such poor packaging that the integrity of the cells can't be garanteed upon arrival.

--------[Lampard] the customer needs to be careful with is words when he made any comments to others, before it causes problems for himself.

 

[Lampard Lei]

I'm kinda upset that one of the biggest LFP manufacturers in China act like a random scam guy on alibaba, and has such poor packaging that the integrity of the cells can't be garanteed upon arrival.

--------[Lampard] the customer needs to be careful with is words when he made any comments to others, before it causes problems for himself.

 

[Lampard Lei]

As this is an overseas forums, I have not read and replied in time. But looks like it has already been circulated for quite sometime. Today is August, 25th, +8 time zone, 2022. The debate already ended yesterday as below:

1, Upon the instructions of the customer, we have removed the pallets, and put the UN38.3 cartons, with goods inside, into 4 wood boxes, 2 separator boards in between of each 9 cartons, plus extra top boards on each wood boxes. Each box and the top board are straped together. 4 boxes are then straped again.(see the third photo)

2, the customer already paid all the cost of the wood work, and signed all the documents, and approved the shipment.

 

[Lampard Lei]

As this is an overseas forums, I have not read and replied in time. But looks like it has already been circulated for quite sometime. Today is August, 25th, +8 time zone, 2022. The debate already ended yesterday as below:

1, Upon the instructions of the customer, we have removed the pallets, and put the UN38.3 cartons, with goods inside, into 4 wood boxes, 2 separator boards in between of each 9 cartons, plus extra top boards on each wood boxes. Each box and the top board are straped together. 4 boxes are then straped again.(see the third photo)

2, the customer already paid all the cost of the wood work, and signed all the documents, and approved the shipment.

Here below are something about EVE:



EVE is a Hurun world top 500 company, a public company with market value of more than 30 billiions USD(stock code 300014 SZ), 25000 employees worldwide, 2500 R&D engineers. We supply world renowned companies like Daimler, BMW, and Jaguar.



Myself has been working as a international trade sales manager in the past 16 years, and 10 of them are with European customers. I dealt with companies like Honeywell, GrDF, Itagas.

 

[Lampard Lei]

Here below are something about EVE:



EVE is a Hurun world top 500 company, a public company with market value of more than 30 billiions USD(stock code 300014 SZ), 25000 employees worldwide, 2500 R&D engineers. We supply world renowned companies like Daimler, BMW, and Jaguar.



Myself has been working as a international trade sales manager in the past 16 years, and 10 of them are with European customers. I dealt with companies like Honeywell, GrDF, Itagas.

To summarize, we thank the customer for doing business with EVE, but the customer has to complain in an honest and professional way. Anything he feels not right, he can write directly to the audit deparment(the contact information has offered as before and listed again below)



Integrity report

0086-(0)752-5752017（Audit Department）

Report mailbox: audit@evebattery.com

Address: Audit Department, EVE Energy Co., Ltd.，NO.38, Huifeng 7th Road, Zhongkai Hi-Tech Zone, HuiZhou, Guangdong, China, Postal code

516006