Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

[Danke]

Yea at that massive size it makes sense. I see tons of homes with 5-10 panels. Probably a majority of homes I see have that many. No way they're making anything back this decade or next lol. Places that are starting to up the insurance rates are just stealing money and they know it

Keep it as a ground mount system, of course you need land for that.

 

[uksuntimes]

I just needed a hobby.

Bonus is now I have some resilience when the power goes out.

 

[65NW]

The point of my solar is to have power when the grid fails. It's a bonus if I become less dependent on the man along the way.

One of my neighbors asked about my solar panels, and when I explained it was mostly for a backup he asked, "how long for that to pay for itself?" And I asked how long before his gas generator would pay for itself.

how long does insurance take to pay for itself?
never or one major accident.

the system I have built makes no financial sense, but thats not why im doing it.
1. learning a lot. challenging puzzle with lots of little efficiency games to chase. especially in winter with 3hrs of light and -30f
2. to see if I can/how little external energy I need.
3. not participating in the utility companies. no right of way easements on my land which opens up routes for trespass, incursion, and utility extensions. dont let the camel's nose in the tent.

 

[littleharbor2]

Yup. That’s what it was. Hippies who went solar.

I can’t remember where I saw my first issue.
Probably an ad in Mother Earth news or something.

I still have all my old magazines in a crate somewhere.

Near the end of their publication years they gave online access to their entire archive with an annual subscription. Took a quite a number of hours to download all of it but I find myself referring to it often. It's really cool seeing how it evolved from a crude backroom publication to the larger, glossier magazine it became.

 

[Kenny_]

Well yeah the corporations are always going to try and grab what they can and make as much money as they can. That's just the nature of the beast. And that's why I prefer to be independent of them. The phone company enjoyed a monopoly for decades but it was strictly controlled...not so much the utilities with deregulation and all.

I will not sell them power and let them mark it up and sell it to my neighbor. I'd rather supply my neighbor directly with power and perhaps get something in return....

 

[Q-Dog]

Nothing.
I wasn't indicting anyone, just asking how it got from there to here

The simple answer is, solar got cheap enough for the average person.

 

[kommando]

In the UK at least, the cost of an install eligible for Grants and/or selling back to grid is still way more than going DIY using 2nd hand equipment. The regulating installer monopoly likes their pound of flesh/perks so it will always be that way. As the MCS approved install price drops so do the 2nd hand equipment prices.

 

[Oldphile]

I've been through both New England ice storms of the last 26 years for a total power outage duration exceeding 15 days. I now have a standby generator, but it consumes propane faster than they will deliver it. I keep hearing how weak the electrical grid is. That's my motivation, but it's nice that the system will pay for itself in 10 years.

 

[dougbert]

I just downloaded 188 issues of home power off their site. So if anyone wants to read it they have them all there to download as pdf files.

Home Power Magazine | Downloadable Archive | Home

An archive of the complete 31-year history of Home Power magazine. 188 digital back issues capture a three decade history of the renewable energy movement in the U.S. and beyond. Each issue is available for non-commercial use at no cost to registered members of this site.

www.homepower.com

did the same, have most of the issues in paper....just in case.

 

[dougbert]

The simple answer is, solar got cheap enough for the average person.

YES SIR

been there when it wasn't and had a small system and grew it over time

 

[exmarkretired]

I don’t think it’s been hijacked, it has evolved. I think we’ve reached the point where the tech is super efficient at the same time the costs have declined greatly and education to learn DIY is free online. So now more folks than ever before can build their own personal power plant that’ll run on free sunlight. Many reasons why this makes sense and I’m good with any reason that makes sense for you.

Until they figure out how to tax sunshine (and you know they’re trying), I believe we’re living in the golden age of personal solar power right now.

They have started, they require permits where I live and they are by the KW of installed panels. Homeowners are heavily scrutinized if DIY and even threatened with re-inspections(for any offenses, which,require a fee of course). In addition, they recently passed an ordnance that if anything is modified, it will be to required all things be brought to the current "code" aka the entire building/property, more fees, more inspetions. Installed before the new ordnance, be prepared to prove it and that it has not been upgraded, expanded or modified. Permits are to be denied or the fines are double what permits might have been prior.

 

[dougbert]

They have started, they require permits where I live and they are by the KW of installed panels. Homeowners are heavily scrutinized if DIY and even threatened with re-inspections(for any offenses, which,require a fee of course). In addition, they recently passed an ordnance that if anything is modified, it will be to required all things be brought to the current "code" aka the entire building/property, more fees, more inspetions. Installed before the new ordnance, be prepared to prove it and that it has not been upgraded, expanded or modified. Permits are to be denied or the fines are double what permits might have been prior.

what state is that?

 

[exmarkretired]

The simple answer is, solar got cheap enough for the average person.

Yes, I have had small solar projects before. Now I have a system big enough I have shaved $100 off my HVAC this summer. Now my addiction caused me to buy more panels from SanTan. Hoping to trench before the ground freezes...

Plus side is I am energy "independent" for almost a day. Have a diesel generator for after that. Have jumped into WMO for my old IDI truck. Being self sufficient is hard to place a monetary value on. Also have a wood stove and some 18v fans DC brushless are incredibly efficient.

And I get lots of exercise going up and down the stairs to check my batteries LOL.

 

[exmarkretired]

what state is that?

Wisconsin, I live in the municipality of Foxconned. Seriously looking to move....to a more "rural" area. Was a wonderful place to live, but now we have curb and gutter, kids who went to school to tell us how to live etc.... (urban planners) Had to explain fire wood and heating a home to him...

But thing changes not always bad, out village idiots usually run, get something passed and then the next bigger better idea comes along... like all thing good and bad, just wait an election cycle...

 

[ScrotpusGobbleBottom]

Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can..

I dont believe the writing on the wall could be any more clear.

It is my understanding that grid power will be vastly more expensive when >50% of people use EVs and that will most likely take a decade to fix brown out issues and find price parity with the "new world" of electric everything.

Oh and there is that murmur of "extremists" targeting the power grid.

Then there is that pesky carrington event that happened in 1859. Most agree that it will happen again and our magnetosphere is much weaker than in 1859.

When the government starts to mumble about things, it usually is a nice slow rollout to catastrophic end.

 

[dougbert]

I dont believe the writing on the wall could be any more clear.

It is my understanding that grid power will be vastly more expensive when >50% of people use EVs and that will most likely take a decade to fix brown out issues and find price parity with the "new world" of electric everything.

Oh and there is that murmur of "extremists" targeting the power grid.

Then there is that pesky carrington event that happened in 1859. Most agree that it will happen again and our magnetosphere is much weaker than in 1859.

When the government starts to mumble about things, it usually is a nice slow rollout to catastrophic end.

I have added all the EMP Shield devices I can to my system with the hope it will work. Kinda hard to test it though

 

[shadowmaker]

I started fiddling with solar because of money, with absolutely no idea what I was doing. I mean none. Got straight to the deep end with 44kWp vertical "no shadows" setup with 2x hybrid inverters plus 2x AC coupled GT inverters and ~110kWh LFP/FLA batts + 2x UPSs. I DIYed and ordered everything from China to keep ROI as low as possible (~5years). I hope I have learned something, but probably not.

Now I have 14kWp more panels and 50kVA diesel genny waiting to be installed. I don't think this is about ROI anymore.

 

[ScrotpusGobbleBottom]

I started fiddling with solar because of money, with absolutely no idea what I was doing. I mean none. Got straight to the deep end with 44kWp vertical "no shadows" setup with 2x hybrid inverters plus 2x AC coupled GT inverters and ~110kWh LFP/FLA batts + 2x UPSs. I DIYed and ordered everything from China to keep ROI as low as possible (~5years). I hope I have learned something, but probably not.

Now I have 14kWp more panels and 50kVA diesel genny waiting to be installed. I don't think this is about ROI anymore.

Addicted to the march toward self sufficiency? I feel ya.

 

[Cronix]

Going solar for many reasons. 1) Electric co wanted $65k to bring power from the street to where our house is. It's a 50+ acre forest property. 2) This area loses power quite frequently in the winter due to storms and trees (power not buried...on poles), so this $65k would only get me so far. 3) Electric grid is aging and we are simultaneously adding increasing loads to it while not building power plants to supply it. 4) Electric rates are skyrocketing due to #3, and will continue to rise way more than the past (less supply, higher demand = more expensive). 5) Governments, like in CA, are shutting peoples power off and performing rolling blackouts because they don't have enough power generation during peak times, and also refuse to generate more. They're getting rid of ICE cars in many western states, in just a few years, and the grid won't be able to handle it, as is. The same governments are also mandating that you get rid of natural gas appliances, which means more electric, which means even more load on the grid.

I won't be having people telling me how much power I can use, and when, and for what. This isn't 1910. We have the capability to create our own. The grid won't be coming on our property, in any fashion. Solar + well + dual oversized septic systems = happy life.

 

[webbbn]

It is my understanding that grid power will be vastly more expensive when >50% of people use EVs and that will most likely take a decade to fix brown out issues and find price parity with the "new world" of electric everything.

According to google, the average US household uses around 10-12 MWh / year, and the average EV uses less than 1 MWh / year. Even if every household added an EV, that would increase electricity usage less than 10%. Not only that, but EV chargers have very good support for charging off-peak, and the grid is necessarily sized to peak usage, not average or off-peak usage, so that should have little effect.

Add to that the V2G chargers that are coming online that can actually be used just like home batteries to peak shave, and the obvious additional incentive that they add to install solar panels, and it's very easy (IMO) to come to the exact opposite conclusion that large-scale use of electric vehicle could drastically improve reliability of the grid and decrease costs.

 

[dougbert]

Going solar for many reasons. 1) Electric co wanted $65k to bring power from the street to where our house is. It's a 50+ acre forest property. 2) This area loses power quite frequently in the winter due to storms and trees (power not buried...on poles), so this $65k would only get me so far. 3) Electric grid is aging and we are simultaneously adding increasing loads to it while not building power plants to supply it. 4) Electric rates are skyrocketing due to #3, and will continue to rise way more than the past (less supply, higher demand = more expensive). 5) Governments, like in CA, are shutting peoples power off and performing rolling blackouts because they don't have enough power generation during peak times, and also refuse to generate more. They're getting rid of ICE cars in many western states, in just a few years, and the grid won't be able to handle it, as is. The same governments are also mandating that you get rid of natural gas appliances, which means more electric, which means even more load on the grid.

I won't be having people telling me how much power I can use, and when, and for what. This isn't 1910. We have the capability to create our own. The grid won't be coming on our property, in any fashion. Solar + well + dual oversized septic systems = happy life.

I always wanted to do that, but have run out of life time, so will focus on what have and what I can do with it


so I watch this couple in WV who has built their homestead on 75 acres. Their grid estimate was $18k so they went solar for $16 4+ years ago

love watching them build their stuff, 20 videos just on their solar. His is an electrician, or was for employment, now YT is a large revenue stream
1 million subs

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Nothing.
I wasn't indicting anyone, just asking how it got from there to here

Ummm...

Meaning, someone else's money. Is this pretty much in line with all the anti establishment Woodstockers getting to power, and becoming the establishment?

Is one side of your brain not talking to the other again?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

According to google, the average US household uses around 10-12 MWh / year, and the average EV uses less than 1 MWh / year.

Average miles driven per year is about 14,263 miles. If EVs are going to replace gas cars, they will be driven the same way and distances.

A model 3 gets 4.56 miles per kWh

14263/4.56 = 3.1kWh or 3.1MWh/year. That's a 25-30% increase.

 

[dougbert]

Average miles driven per year is about 14,263 miles. If EVs are going to replace gas cars, they will be driven the same way and distances.

A model 3 gets 4.56 miles per kWh

14263/4.56 = 3.1kWh or 3.1MWh/year. That's a 25-30% increase.

do able as we ADD to the grid OVER TIME, but we need to that as we have done in the past

 

[sunshine_eggo]

do able as we ADD to the grid OVER TIME, but we need to that as we have done in the past

Yep. I just can't stomach an estimate off by 3X.

This article states that the current grid can handle 26 million EVs at 3.8MWh each in off-peak capacity:

Can the Power Grid Handle Electric Cars? — EV Connect

The power grid can handle the coming surge in electric vehicles, but utility companies must prepare for it now. Here are three things utilities can do today.

www.evconnect.com

Has some other linked sources.