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diy solar

Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

OffGridForGood said:
And notice, they are far more interested in 'collecting taxes' than ensuring the structure is safe - ie what the building codes are supposed to be for.
And don't misunderstand me, I am not implying the structure is unsafe at all. Just my pet peeve that under the guise of "enforcing building codes" we often see tax collection is the real motivation.
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yeah thats the difference between the tax office and the codes office. mine meets code for temp structure (no real codes to be honest :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: ) but getting them to put that in writing shut down the tax office. no taxes on temporary structures.... also no guidelines on how long they can exist. it s a loop hole for farmers/construction firms on worksites, small business temp warehouse etc. to make pole barns etc. for storage onsite. Proper footer/foundation makes it a structure as would plumbing for sinks and toilet. which i have neither.
 
I see OP's argument as more of a location-based issue.

If you are in the city (or highly populated area), and exploring solar, you are causing grief to the local grid, because you're going off-grid or hybrid. Thus, in the city, grid/regulatory folks are doing all they can to keep you "tied in" with the grid wherever, however possible (legally, or otherwise). This is life in the city.

If you are in the country (rural, low population areas), and diy in nature, none of the above applies to you. But, collectively, we are a drop in the bucket, and not worth caring about (or doing something about)?

In this forum alone, it seems to have changed from 90% diy off-grid type systems content to 90% grid-tied content. Same with formerly 90% old-school LF equipment vs nearly 100% AIO HF equipment these days. Still don't know if AIO HF will replace LF, as in, no more old-school stuff available to buy.

My diy, off-grid, LF stuff just works, and, isn't installed/regulated by anybody ... and that could be another reason why it isn't talked about much?
 
50ShadesOfDirt said:
I see OP's argument as more of a location-based issue.

If you are in the city (or highly populated area), and exploring solar, you are causing grief to the local grid, because you're going off-grid or hybrid. Thus, in the city, grid/regulatory folks are doing all they can to keep you "tied in" with the grid wherever, however possible (legally, or otherwise). This is life in the city.

If you are in the country (rural, low population areas), and diy in nature, none of the above applies to you. But, collectively, we are a drop in the bucket, and not worth caring about (or doing something about)?

In this forum alone, it seems to have changed from 90% diy off-grid type systems content to 90% grid-tied content. Same with formerly 90% old-school LF equipment vs nearly 100% AIO HF equipment these days. Still don't know if AIO HF will replace LF, as in, no more old-school stuff available to buy.

My diy, off-grid, LF stuff just works, and, isn't installed/regulated by anybody ... and that could be another reason why it isn't talked about much?
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I’ve morphed my Solar project just the opposite direction. Too many roadblocks for my house in the city to do solar. Bought property out in the country and will be going off grid there.
 
Danke said:
I’ve morphed my Solar project just the opposite direction. Too many roadblocks for my house in the city to do solar. Bought property out in the country and will be going off grid there.
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That’s the way ya do it..?…you can’t straighten out the masses…and you can’t buck em either….no point in tryin ..
so just become a “gone gator”…..and live free.
 
Danke said:
I’ve morphed my Solar project just the opposite direction. Too many roadblocks for my house in the city to do solar. Bought property out in the country and will be going off grid there.
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that is exactly why I bought property out in the boondocks. i got tired of getting juiced by the local city in regards to permits and taxes so i bought my cabin so i could build what I want when i want. solar was just an extension of my experiments with my camper. if i could do it with the camper, i can do it with a house was my thought process.
 
Q-Dog said:
The point of my solar is to have power when the grid fails. It's a bonus if I become less dependent on the man along the way.

One of my neighbors asked about my solar panels, and when I explained it was mostly for a backup he asked, "how long for that to pay for itself?" And I asked how long before his gas generator would pay for itself.
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And if the grid goes down for a very long time, how much fuel did he store to run HIS backup power supply? I to have solar for a long term backup also. There are more and more people like us who are coming around to reality. Get ready!
 
Nobodybusiness said:
Price and availability.

If solar still cost what it did in 1992 this forum probably wouldn’t exist.

Not everyone here is net metering either.

Being grid tied is just more practical that having to buy all the equipment at once to run an all electric home.

I still think most of us are independent types.
I do keep track of my ROI but it’s not the sole reason for doing this.

Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can..
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Started looking into solar in 2020. Was totally thinking net metering but I got smart and went independent, (no government involvement). Our government is not for the people! ROI was never my thinking. Saw the writing on the wall and ALSO preparing as best I can. You have good insight on the situation.
 
jbkrntrprz said:
And if the grid goes down for a very long time, how much fuel did he store to run HIS backup power supply? I to have solar for a long term backup also. There are more and more people like us who are coming around to reality. Get ready!
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"Its the features I need, not the money I spend that matters most"


.
 
Personally, I do solar so that I can build towards utility independence.

Nothing to do with "gubbermen' interference", I just don't want to pay a private company in an industry that has a history of stinging its customers.

I don't do it to save money, it doesn't. I don't do it to "stick it to the man". I don't do it to live in the outback miles from anywhere. I do it because if a company is going to charge me (say) 50p per KWh and 60p per day, and change prices constantly (always going up just before winter and down just before summer, strange that!), not give support, give me terribly unmathematical estimated bills that they then expect me to pay or constantly correct them, give me zero customer service, regular power cuts, can't even be bothered to change out my meter (I'm still on an old teleswitch radio triple-rate meter!), this year they've made the overnight storage heating rates HIGHER than the standard off-peak rate (and hence there are old people paying for heating thinking it's cheaper and actually using far more expensive electricity when if their heater was one-cable-over it would be cheaper!), etc. then I don't see why I should give THEM the money.

I'd rather do it myself, even if it's more expensive, and have it as backup from day one, learn and enjoy doing it as a hobby, and plan that by the time I retire I likely won't need grid electricity. If they've upped their game by then, I've not really lost anything that I wouldn't spend on a similar hobby. If they haven't, I can tell them where to go.

Each month I take the "savings" that I refund from my estimated bills, invest them in solar bits instead. Next month my bill is slightly less, so their estimate is slightly more out again, which I refund, and so on.

I'm not particularly interested in dropping £50k on a system. I'm not at all interested in "feeding back to the grid" (why am I suddenly providing your infrastructure for you?). I'm not interested in subsidies and rebates (which come from taxpayers, not the industry).

But when there's a power cut now, I flick a switch and I have my lights, laptop, basic appliances enough to ride out the blackout. (My neighbours have already asked how come all my lights were on and I was watching TV when the whole street's power went out).
As time goes by, I'll have enough to run more and more, until I literally don't notice the blackout.
And by the time I retire, I would hope to be a crotchety old man who - when they have their first big disagreement with the electrical companies - will just say "Fine." and request being cut off entirely.
 
ledow said:
As time goes by, I'll have enough to run more and more, until I literally don't notice the blackout
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It doesn’t take too much to get there, either. I recently installed a 6548/3600W/10kWh system for somebody local, no grid feedback. In its first week- cloudy Vermont, short days- it ‘made’ 74kWh, used 58kWh of battery. Phase 2 coming in a few weeks (2nd 6548, 10kWh batteries), 3000W more panels) and that appears it will cover 100% of his typical use. Sorta could ‘just barely’ now.
So in your case with an AIO and adequate panels to cover the idle draw you wouldn’t even need a manual disconnect to not notice an outage, and you won’t have much of a bill!

In my situation, I’m accidentally off-grid. I accumulated panels and upgrades over the last three or four years. When I bought a small piece of property I asked about getting grid connected; $3500 plus $1500 of stuff on my end. While there’s two poles on my property I did not connect- spent $600 on a backup generator and bought another 200Ah battery instead.

So while I’m glad to be ‘off grid’ and would probably head that direction anyways, it’s weird that I see those overhead lines and don’t pay a dime to support them.

In your situation it almost seems simpler with only 230V to worry about. Adding a split phase AIO and batteries is going to cost me a few grand. But I’ll own it. And with it the comfort that whatever happens my electricity won’t shut down- barring lightning.
 
ledow said:
I don't do it to save money, it doesn't. I don't do it to "stick it to the man". I don't do it to live in the outback miles from anywhere. I do it because if a company is going to charge me (say) 50p per KWh and 60p per day, and change prices constantly (always going up just before winter and down just before summer, strange that!), not give support, give me terribly unmathematical estimated bills that they then expect me to pay or constantly correct them, give me zero customer service, regular power cuts, can't even be bothered to change out my meter (I'm still on an old teleswitch radio triple-rate meter!), this year they've made the overnight storage heating rates HIGHER than the standard off-peak rate (and hence there are old people paying for heating thinking it's cheaper and actually using far more expensive electricity when if their heater was one-cable-over it would be cheaper!), etc. then I don't see why I should give THEM the money.
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THIS!!!
 
I am tired of paying the utility more and more every year. I have two electric cars which actually save me a lot of money in repairs and fuel costs. Now our utilities in California want to charge us based upon our income, make more pay more.

As I move towards retirement I don't want increasing costs, I want lower costs. I now have very little electric costs for the rest of my life (I stay tied to grid for backup). I will get the payback in about 4-5 years and then almost no cost going forward.

I am not rich and I can't afford for the government and the utilities to keep increasing the cost of services. I just want to worry about less when I retire. Those subsidies (tax credits) are money I have paid for in taxes that I am getting back, so I don't feel bad about it.

But yes, this is different than some granola hippie trying to save the environment and live off the grid. I am not looking to conserve the free sun energy and live a minimalistic life as much as I am trying to conserve my cash.
 
Danke said:
What? You live in Wisconsin. Enjoy your Marginal Tax Rates? I won’t be here much longer, but it’s worse in Minnesota, if you can imagine that.
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Understood, but now we are talking about power. As in whats next? Variable rate grocery shopping depending on income? Im surprised California hasnt done that too.
 
CaliSunHarvester said:
With gasoline tax revenues shrinking, a good way to bill EV and hybrid drivers.
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That may be a terrible idea.
Or it might be a good idea.
Think about it for a while, though. Your stomach for government instigation will determine the outcome of your thoughts.

Imho I want less government involvement and much smaller government. The government is the least efficient thing I can think of for generating effective use of expenditures that actually benefit the public. Business can just do stuff with a team of 49 while the government will fund a team of 49 to study about who to best fill the estimated 250 jobs it would take to do the same thing imho.

We missed out on Ross Perot wiping out US Govt debt. Now we’re bent on seeing how deep ‘we’ can go before we call Greece for advice.
 
ScrotusGobbleBottom said:
What in the actual F is that! Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought I would hear that!
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CaliSunHarvester said:
I think this idea has already been thrown out.
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The photon tax was proposed during NEM 3.0, but dropped.
However, a different state has one now, so you can be sure it will return.

Income-based rates is currently under consideration. California legislature mandated it. For PG&E, proposal is up to about $95/month fixed fee depending on income, and for SCE up to about $130/month.

diysolarforum.com

WTH is this new Cali BS? Income Based Rate Increase??? I don't understand.... someone look at this PLZ

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/california-power-companies-roll-out-fixed-rate-bill-proposal/ So if I'm understanding this right; everyone will pay $0.33 per KWH (which is INSANE compared to Ohio right now), but then everyone will have a 2nd charge based on household income? It's that a fine...
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com

Some articles say that is just a proposal expected to be pared back, to something more like $40/month (presently we are around $11/month.)

Goal is to (temporarily) make per kWh cost lower, so operating expensive electric appliances instead of cheap gas appliances won't look so bad. Electric heat costs 8x what gas does, so one roommate using space heater adds $150 ~ $200 to our bill. Gas furnace would have heated entire house for that (but different people want warm/cold at different times, and with closed bedroom door furnace makes it too hot.) Heat house with electric, can exceed $1000.

Once more people adopt all-electric, of course production costs will drive electric rates higher for everyone. Except during peak PV hours.
 
12VoltInstalls said:
Imho I want less government involvement and much smaller government. The government is the least efficient thing I can think of for generating effective use of expenditures that actually benefit the public. Business can just do stuff with a team of 49 while the government will fund a team of 49 to study about who to best fill the estimated 250 jobs it would take to do the same thing imho.
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Ok and my thoughts are the state (CA) should have bought or taken over the utility from bankruptcy and run it as a non profit agency instead of a regulated profit seeking corporation.

Or I need to buy 1000 shares of SCE ($68,000) to cover my electric bill with the dividends.
 
Idaho power just got their wish and now have a dual tiered rate. On Peak/off peak . They also just got another 5% raise in rates. We now have to use a ul1723b inverter or be able to upgrade our existing inverter if we haven't gone online yet. Where we had a kwh for kwh bank before now, they want to monitor our usage and production separately. We will get 0.8 to 17 cents per kwh for what we produce (I'll bet). Our Outback 8048A has not been commissioned yet and I am thinking maybe just doing grid assist with the idea of telling them to come take their meter if I get too much grief from them. We have an all electric manufactured home that is all electric. Been in the process for a while now to lower our electricity usage while maintaining our lifestyle. Our usage is low enough now that the 8048A can easily handle all of our needs. Once I get the shop lights changed to leds, and the roof of the shop insulated that will help even more.
 
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