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RayfromTx video "Reduce the Risk When Buying Lifepo4 From Alibaba!" is misleading

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houseofancients said:
well, not really, i heavily defended docan in the past , as i did lyuan.
both have had a number of questionable cells send out in the last months/weeks , so i stopped.
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I am of a similar mind on this as @houseofancients . Though I haven't ever said that any one supplier is best, I have reported on my own purchase decisions and the results. However, after seeing several reports of slightly bulging cells, I became concerned that the quality of the products available has declined.

Also, when I saw the video from Ray with the failure of the purportedly 'EV Quality' batteries, it seemed odd to me that SFK would carelessly send out low quality product to a person who had already demonstrated ability and willingness to test the cells. I wondered if the actual problem is back at EVE's sales and distribution. Meaning, do they now know there are people buying 'EV Grade' cells for solar storage end uses, and since these cells are not going to automotive manufacturers, is someone at EVE trying to game the system for a little personal profit by passing off lower quality cells as EV Grade.

This seems more plausible than resellers intentionally ruining their reputations, when their reputation is the reason for the bulk of their business.
 
Steve_S said:
Luyuan has Been a Known Good Vendor since she started, some of her "innovations" for packaging & more were picked up others.
I Wrote the Luyuan Tech Basic Lifepo4 Guide V1.0A because she is one of the Honourables. BTW I have been dealing with Chinese Manufacturers & Vendors since the late 1980's so know the shtick and the games.

@upnorthandpersonal & I collaborated on the NEW JK-BMS Manual V: 2.2 2022/07/22 which is now out in Bilingual (Simple Chinese & English) but is being split into multi-laguague and again because NAMI is also an Honourable but an Employee of Hankzor.

Both Upnorth & I are from the "original gang here", and we are here to help folks and steer them in the right direction when possible... HE is just more tolerant than I am with some shenanigans, and let me tell you, our wallets have had their hits along the with a pile of "Lessons Learned" too...

As for Ray from Texas he goes by what info he has available to him and some of that is clearly tainted by some experiences like that SFK Fiasco.
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@Amy Wan @Steve_S

sfk claim they are using amy's cells , is there anyway either on of you can confirm or deny this?
 
Bud Martin said:
What is the requirement for the cell to be qualified as telecommunications grade cells? I have not seen one before, just curious.
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Telecom Batteries are not required to have to deal with a High C Rate and numerous charge cycles. So typically you will see a .3C max on their specifications while Grade A cells are tested at 1C and above. It is the fact that the batteries are in light duty operation and have lower life expectancy that allows companies to use Grade B cells.
 
Bud Martin said:
None, nothing to gain for me.
How about you, who is your master?
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Well, my cat seems to think he's in charge. As far as this thread, I really have no horse in the game. I guess I'm just trying to make sure people don't make the mistake I came very close to making with a battery purchase. I very nearly believed that I could get the same cells from Docan for $110 that Luyuan is charging $146 for. I'm actually sorry that I can't. It would be awesome if Ray's video was true, then we could all just shop at Docan and I'd be buying from them as well.
 
I trust what @Steve_S has said in past relating to Luyuan since he appears to have somewhat frequent personal contact with her. There is a longish history of Amy from Luyuan here having worked at a separate company where she was only sales person selling cells and then starting her own company with her husband. She has a much more vested interest in making sure she is accurate with her statements since she owns the company.. unlike many of the others who are simply sales people and get paid more based on how much they sell.. not necessarily worrying about how accurate or honest they are.
 
Bud Martin said:
So why do you accuse me and other for being Ray's sock puppet army? Does that help people learning anything by accusing people like that or you are just showing your true color?
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I genuinely am curious what the connection is. I can't remember exactly, but weren't you the OP for some dispute thread related to Ray? If you want I'll try to drag up the thread, but how does that happen?

Here it is:
diysolarforum.com

Sunfunkits show their true color

They really suck. They do not even know how to use test equipment properly. I sure like to see SunfunShits response in the video.
diysolarforum.com diysolarforum.com
 
I have purchased cells from Docan, they were great! All met or exceeded the capacitance and they have been flawless for 2 months.

But, I have now been burned 2 times by Aliexpress! First order never shipped and the seller refused to respond. Second order I received a prismatic casing filled with 18650s! Trying to explain that this is not correct to Ali has gotten me nowhere. I was refunded for the first order after a week the second one I am still disputing. I have since switched to local purchases only. Luckily there are quite a few people around me that import and resell them but they are expensive.
I know many people say they have had good luck with Ali but I am not going down that path again. I made sure the sellers had good feedback, had a history but none of that mattered. The demand for these cells is high and we keep pushing the prices higher by agreeing to pay more than they are worth. Where there is demand scammers will prosper.
 
houseofancients said:
@Amy Wan @Steve_S

sfk claim they are using amy's cells , is there anyway either on of you can confirm or deny this?
Click to expand...
I KNOW Amy Wan IS NOT SELLING TO SFK ! He IS on several Blackists with companies he has threatened and been belligerent to. Amy Wan She is also a friend as I know her mother, husband & daughter and get regular updates about the family even. I am the one who encouraged her to go direct and she buys in Large Lots of matched batches.

If SFK says the sun rises in the west, would you believe it. ? I would hope not.
 
upnorthandpersonal said:
With the important aspect you left out, as I said: "with the information generally available at that time, six months ago, the video is correct" and that while it can be perceived as misleading to some, it's not intentionally so. As I said, there is misleading information in some of Will's videos as well. Doesn't mean we have to start requesting him to take them down. Within historical context, based on the information/knowledge generally available at that time, those videos are fine.
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Out of date videos are often misleading, especially on YouTube. I always look at the date before viewing. Responsible authors would take them down if they later prove to be misleading or inaccurate.
 
Bud Martin said:
What is the requirement for the cell to be qualified as telecommunications grade cells? I have not seen one before, just curious.
Click to expand...
Composed a response and deleted it. Grade A appears to be anything we want it to be. For an example, go to this thread post #213 Apparantly, some very popular server rack batteries use telecom grade cells and advertise them as grade A+. I'll have to look again, but some sites claim EV cells are superior to telecom cells. Would that make the telecom cells grade b?

Which brings up the question: What specifications determine a grade A cell?

Which leads to ... what specifications does the manufacturer utilize in determining the grade of a LiFePo4 cell, and what are those grades?

It would help immensely to establish solid guidelines on this subject.
 
There are no official grades. (Just marketing hype)
If they pass, they go to the auto manufacturers.
If they fail (no matter how slightly), they are sold to vendors that sell to us.
 
timselectric said:
There are no official grades. (Just marketing hype)
If they pass, they go to the auto manufacturers.
If they fail (no matter how slightly), they are sold to vendors that sell to us.
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They do Grade them as A, B and C. The C cells are dumped or recycled. (hopefully)
Anyway your point is Valid in that they do not deliberately make a Grade B cell, it is just a byproduct of failing one or more of the tests. What would be nice to know is what test did each battery fail. Some of them are not as important as others and it's almost certain that they record that data somewhere. They would have to so that analyst can tell what part of the manufacturing processes is causing the most issues.
 
Or could it be simply pass/fail? Of course with the final test result of why it failed.
 
SparkyJJO said:
Or could it be simply pass/fail? Of course with the final test result of why it failed.
Click to expand...
I have heard they have at least 5 major tests it needs to Pass over a 30 day period. The one that they typically fail is the X-Ray examination. I figure if it fails that first test they don't bother with the others like weight, resistance, capacity testing, etc.

The cells have lots of electrodes that are thin strips of metal that are cut on a machine "Slitting" and spun onto rolls into something that looks like a role of tape. That roll is then cut into individual strips and each strip is an electrode.
If any of the strips have a bad cut it shows up under X-Raying as jagged edges. These typically occur because the blades are getting dull or for many other reasons.

Anyway as the cell is charged and discharge it expands and contracts and the electrodes rub against the separator between them. If the edges are rough they cut into the Separator and eventually render that damaged separator useless.
This rupture in the separator then causes a higher self discharge rate in the battery. In a nutshell it shortens the life of the cell significantly.
 
upnorthandpersonal said:
Which one? We've already kicked off a lot of corporate accounts. Promotion is not allowed, and they have to actually contribute to discussions.
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I think you know which one because there is only one.
Promotion comes in many forms, not just sales pitches but also in the form of promoting the idea that you offer great customer service when in fact the customer service is terrible. Promotion can come in the form of creating a narrative that your working hard on delivering fixes for your products issues when in fact you have delivered nothing for months on end.
These things influence a buyers decision.
Anyway think nothing more of it, it was just a suggestion.
 
The_truth said:
As production yield is constantly improving, there will be less and less "Grade B" cells available. AKA scrap cells

EVE doesn't advertise "Grade A" because they don't offer anything but "Grade A" cells which has passed all QC checks and come with warranty from EVE. The failed batteries are all sold to 1 sole factory currently who then sells to many of these Alibaba companies who put fancy stickers on the cells and market them as best they can.

10,000 cells is a sample order from EVE, while you may think this is a large quantity, large manufacturers use many times this amount.
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Your right about that but in a few years their are going to be a ton of used cells on the market, so much that I bet the prices drop in half or even more.
This will change the way we look at batteries. Larger banks of used batteries that are changed out every couple of years might become the new DIY method,
 
ray had their entire account wiped from this forum not too long ago. for spam.

Post in thread 'RayfromTX Gone..? Huh..?'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/rayfromtx-gone-huh.38440/post-486412

1660815874967.jpeg

clearly state commissions. don't spam referrals. it's pretty easy if you think about it.

for what it is worth, they seem friendly, cool project etc. i still want spammers to be banned.

i have no affiliation with any company. this forum is rad. spam is not.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
I don't know about other's, but I don't believe Amy Wan's cells are grade A. Perhaps it's timing related, but zero of my nine cells received in Jan, 2021 met capacity test.
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I have one battery out of four of SLT that has runners, so not too bad. 2 out 4 from another vender. 1/1 from another and 1/1 from another.
 
Sverige said:
parroting the same narrative the OP of this thread has been pushing!
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@Sverige

There's no "narrative." I already said why I posted this thread. I'm pasting it again here:

The purpose of this post was to try and make sure people don't make the mistake of believing you can get the same cells from Docan for $110 that Luyuan is charging $146 for. In his video Ray implied you could, and that's factually wrong. It's no more complicated than that.

So please don't try to turn it into a "narrative" with some kind of ulterior motives. I'm just a guy trying to understand what's what with batteries, not get screwed over by some vendor, and help others in the process.

Some people here are acting like Ray is their guru and he walks on water, and how dare anyone say otherwise.

Sorry but I'm not going to join the Church of Ray, if he says something wrong that is misinformation or potentially harmful, if I happen to notice, I'll point it out.
 
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Let’s not make personal posts please, questioning someone’s lifestyle is unwarranted.
I find Ray totally unwatchable. I keep telling myself, shouldn't an add be showing up soon. Please make an add come on. Take 20 minutes to say something that takes a minute. You get a new set of batteries and can't remember you have charged them!
 
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The Topic:

RayfromTx video "Reduce the Risk When Buying Lifepo4 From Alibaba!" is misleading​

As for the whole EV / ESS Grades oiey.
CHALLENGE: Find ONE Automaker using Prismatic Cells for their EV's excluding Low Speed EV like golfcart or those awesomely weird Alibaba < $5000 ones. LOOK HARD !

europe.autonews.com

BMW to get Tesla-like cylindrical batteries in Europe from China's EVE, report says

EVE will supply BMW with battery cells for the automaker's Neue Klasse (New Class) vehicles, sources said, as the automaker follows Tesla in adopting the technology.
europe.autonews.com europe.autonews.com
 
I'm going to go a little off topic. I like Ray's videos. Is he honest? I have no clue. I watched SFK's video. I personally wouldn't do that to a customer but he's not me.
I'll watch all the videos and come here and read all the posts and learn from all of it. I appreciate those that have tested for the rest of us. It is buyer beware when you purchase anything off the internet. Be careful it's your money! I'll do my research and find the products that fit my needs.
Thanks to all for your posts here it helps educate me.
 
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