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Signature Solar Quality and Warranty Woes

How did he void the warranty ? Do some of you just glaze over a post and have no idea what you just read? They did tell him to open it up.. I guess I will agree with you that SS seems downright scary to buy from for a new person to solar.. Like I am

Anyway,
Do the SS techs get a 10 minute crash course on basic problems before they are allowed to take a call? Does not really seem like it. If I was a tech there "yep I could probably get the job" You smell some smoke and popping noises after a year of running fine? Yes. Okay gonna email you an rma. I will have one ready to ship tomorrow.

so a couple of things .... most of our SS gear has a sticker across the opening seals that says Warranty Void if Opened .... i think what probably happened is that the OP was honest talking to the initial sales guy (I won't use the term Tech) and told him that he had opened it up to see if he could see anything wrong ... just guessing since i don't have the initial timeline .... and of course this is where the removal of the missing 4 out of 5 bonding screws occurred -- (in the sales tech mind ...

In SS defense -- you would be surprised how many calls we get from our field guys saying that this or that isn't working and that they didnt do anything - then when we get out there it looks like the played the game of OPERATION on it ...I am sure SS sees the same thing ...
 
so a couple of things .... most of our SS gear has a sticker across the opening seals that says Warranty Void if Opened .... i think what probably happened is that the OP was honest talking to the initial sales guy (I won't use the term Tech) and told him that he had opened it up to see if he could see anything wrong ... just guessing since i don't have the initial timeline .... and of course this is where the removal of the missing 4 out of 5 bonding screws occurred -- (in the sales tech mind ...

In SS defense -- you would be surprised how many calls we get from our field guys saying that this or that isn't working and that they didnt do anything - then when we get out there it looks like the played the game of OPERATION on it ...I am sure SS sees the same thing ...
As someone posted earlier, opening the case doesn't void warranties:

 
so a couple of things .... most of our SS gear has a sticker across the opening seals that says Warranty Void if Opened .... i think what probably happened is that the OP was honest talking to the initial sales guy (I won't use the term Tech) and told him that he had opened it up to see if he could see anything wrong ... just guessing since i don't have the initial timeline .... and of course this is where the removal of the missing 4 out of 5 bonding screws occurred -- (in the sales tech mind ...

In SS defense -- you would be surprised how many calls we get from our field guys saying that this or that isn't working and that they didnt do anything - then when we get out there it looks like the played the game of OPERATION on it ...I am sure SS sees the same thing ...
The unit was "sealed" when I had asked for an RMA after the failure. I did not want to create any vector for accusation of causing the failure and having an RMA denied so I did not go "poking around" on my own beforehand. I can understand that Signature Solar could be skeptical and that people do break things and then don't own up to it. So I wanted us both on equal playing fields.

Only after I kept getting asked for voltage readings, continuity tests, and to power it back up to take a video/audio and prove that it was not working did I open anything up. During this, I had informed and sent pictures to the tech that was assigned to me showing the troubleshooting steps I was taking with their feedback. I had asked just to ship the unit to them, but was told that I would need to take certain troubleshooting steps before an RMA would be approved, regardless of the mode of failure.

Their own blog post tells you to remove bonding screw(s) if they are present under certain conditions/configurations on EG4 inverters. This would require you to remove the cover: "...you will likely need to remove the bonding screw inside."

There are QC issues at play here. With my first inverter having blocked fans, and this one or both missing bonding screw(s). Checking for the cause of and fixing both of these problems requires taking off the cover. And these are problems that would most likely not be caused by hidden shipping damage/jostling, it's something that would have most likely occured during assembly, and should have been caught after assembly during testing of the inverters before packing for shipment.

On the plus side - Signature Solar sent me a prepaid label for my RMA, and I have sent the damaged inverter on its way back. So I have that progress so far, thank you for that Markus.
 
So what’s the fix? Maybe it’ll be applicable for other people as well with the same problems.
The fix is simple… just because you can start a business and own a bussines doesn’t mean you know how to Run a business… take some courses , learn the tried and true methods of the successful one that preceded you …..don’t ignore people just be cause you already have their money…
people new to success and money often start believing their own BS… arrogance ensues, then poor judgement.. then failure…been that way since biblical times..
this is old school stone walling ..the squeaky wheels get the grease ( as proven here) and let the others dangle till they go away…
that’s the fix…do to others as you would have them do to you…
?
 
this is old school stone walling ..the squeaky wheels get the grease ( as proven here) and let the others dangle till they go away…
And that’s where preventative maintenance comes in… so the wheels don’t start squeaking. If it’s making noise it’s already metal on metal and the damage is already done.
 
And that’s where preventative maintenance comes in… so the wheels don’t start squeaking. If it’s making noise it’s already metal on metal and the damage is already done.
It’s an old expression….It has nothing to do with prevention ,maintence , noise , metal or damage…in this case , it’s all about how customer service is approached and handled by a company or seller

on that note ,I will just bow out…I hope you have a great rest of the day…
thankyou , J.
 
How would this have ended if the customer had no idea about this forum? I would never open it up especially if there is a warranty is void sticker on the case. Just tell support I'm not opening it up I can do whatever troubleshooting is required without opening it up. Their support people should never ask customer to do that run a risk of someone getting shocked. I understand dealing with high voltage already, but probing around with a meter while the unit is on just asking for someone to get hurt, or worse.
 
It’s an old expression….It has nothing to do with prevention ,maintence , noise , metal or damage…in this case , it’s all about how customer service is approached and handled by a company or seller

Interesting, one member uses a metaphor and another member responds with a metaphor. The first member doesn't understand the response was a metaphor.........


on that note ,I will just bow out…I hope you have a great rest of the day…
thankyou , J.
It is Friday and that means it is close to the weekend. Of course it will be a great day. :)
 
Interesting, one member uses a metaphor and another member responds with a metaphor. The first member doesn't understand the response was a metaphor.........



It is Friday and that means it is close to the weekend. Of course it will be a great day. :)
Forgive me for asking, I'd been wondering on your charge controller if you have done the update yet and if that fixed your issues with it?
 
Interesting, one member uses a metaphor and another member responds with a metaphor. The first member doesn't understand the response was a

au contraire mon frere……?.



It is Friday and that means it is close to the weekend. Of course it will be a great day. :)
 
Forgive me for asking, I'd been wondering on your charge controller if you have done the update yet and if that fixed your issues with it?
I did one. The issue was intermittent, I could never pin down a complete cause of the code setting. I tried running batteries down low enough where a complete charge would not be reached the next day. No luck.

My thoughts are if there are clouds in the evening that cause PV voltage to drop below 110V, then PV voltage rises above 110V, the code will set. At 80V, the unit shuts down completely after a few minutes, I've seen as long as 6 minutes. Under 110V, charging stops. But I've never been able to prove what causes the code to set.

I've been watching to see if the algorithm for the MPPT changed with the firmware update by comparing both charge controllers but haven't noticed a big difference.

I will be creating a video on how to update the firmware and is also why I have not updated the second charge controller. Next week sometime, EG4 now has the firmware download available on the downloads page which was another thing I was waiting for.
 
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And that’s where preventative maintenance comes in… so the wheels don’t start squeaking. If it’s making noise it’s already metal on metal and the damage is already done.
The entire proverb is "The squeaky wheel gets the oil - but sometimes it gets removed!"
The fix is simple… just because you can start a business and own a business' doesn’t mean you know how to Run a business… take some courses , learn the tried and true methods of the successful one that preceded you …..don’t ignore people just be cause you already have their money…
people new to success and money often start believing their own BS… arrogance ensues, then poor judgement.. then failure…been that way since biblical times..
this is old school stone walling ..the squeaky wheels get the grease ( as proven here) and let the others dangle till they go away…
that’s the fix…do to others as you would have them do to you…
?
Also don't misrepresent (even unintentionally) that you are a technical/repair customer focused service when you're really a mail order supplier. This is not directed at any specific company BUT there are too many companies whose online presence is that they portray themselves as being a cutting next-generation developer, designer, and support team for the latest generation of this or that solar when in truth they run a website - purchase all there stuff from China - rebrand it - sell it -- and hope it works ...
 
Well one thing that I find completely RIDICULOUS is having a customer repair electrical equipment.

That's is by definition what the damn warranty is for. SS might want to look into on site repair/tech guys because what is going to happen is some unlucky buyer is going to stick a screw driver somewhere they shouldn't, after being asked by a tech to "work" on the product.

They don't make liability insurance that goes that high.....
Ummm,

Sorry, can't agree with you here. This is not a microwave oven or a TV you get at best buy. It's more like a split a/c system or something. If you are not comfortable cracking the case, I'm thinking you probably should not have purchased it in the first place. I for one would be happy to open up a box to save the trouble of shipping back and re-wiring everything to a new box, if it could be fixed with a spare part instead.

If you are so stupid you are going to throw a screwdriver around willy-nilly inside the cabinet, and don't know how to work a multi-meter what the hell are you doing self-installing something that can easily kill you even if you install it correctly? You may want to re-think what you just said. If the package AC on the roof goes out, I'm not going to call the company I bought it from and ask for an RA number, then hire a crane and rip it off the roof. I'm going to get a technician out and try and figure out what is wrong. In the case of DIY YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN. There is an implicit understanding you have enough competency/knowledge to replace a component or take some readings with a meter without getting killed. If this is not the case you should hire one. If there is magic smoke coming from the cabinet, and that is dangerous, you need to articulate it properly to the support technician. Generally once you make it clear the proper course of action will be taken. For example:

They ran all new HV wires thru the neighborhood with a boring project about 10 years ago. About 6 months later I notice my plumbing drains were backed up. (Just me, and sometimes my son we didn't use a lot) I noted the problem at the cleanout on the way to the street. I called the city, they said it was my problem unless I could prove the issue was under the road. I called a plumber, he ran a snake and camera, followed the line, identified the blockage about 3 feet off the curb in the road. City inspector finally came out, I explaned it to him, told him it was probably the new power lines they put in. He then proceeded to ask the plumber to push the snake a little harder to see if it would break thru. At this point the plumber asked the city inspector what the likely outcome would be if the snake punctured the insulation on a high voltage feed line, and if he was willing to take responsibility for a negative outcome when the snake exploded and the power went out on my block. He articulated the ramifications of honoring the request, so instead they dug up the road and re-routed the power lines ( a bundle of 4 that could not have been more perfectly centered thru my waste line if you had tried).

If you want to play technician, you need to play technician. Good grief.
 
Ummm,

Sorry, can't agree with you here. This is not a microwave oven or a TV you get at best buy. It's more like a split a/c system or something. If you are not comfortable cracking the case, I'm thinking you probably should not have purchased it in the first place. I for one would be happy to open up a box to save the trouble of shipping back and re-wiring everything to a new box, if it could be fixed with a spare part instead.

If you are so stupid you are going to throw a screwdriver around willy-nilly inside the cabinet, and don't know how to work a multi-meter what the hell are you doing self-installing something that can easily kill you even if you install it correctly? You may want to re-think what you just said. If the package AC on the roof goes out, I'm not going to call the company I bought it from and ask for an RA number, then hire a crane and rip it off the roof. I'm going to get a technician out and try and figure out what is wrong. In the case of DIY YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN. There is an implicit understanding you have enough competency/knowledge to replace a component or take some readings with a meter without getting killed. If this is not the case you should hire one. If there is magic smoke coming from the cabinet, and that is dangerous, you need to articulate it properly to the support technician. Generally once you make it clear the proper course of action will be taken. For example:

They ran all new HV wires thru the neighborhood with a boring project about 10 years ago. About 6 months later I notice my plumbing drains were backed up. (Just me, and sometimes my son we didn't use a lot) I noted the problem at the cleanout on the way to the street. I called the city, they said it was my problem unless I could prove the issue was under the road. I called a plumber, he ran a snake and camera, followed the line, identified the blockage about 3 feet off the curb in the road. City inspector finally came out, I explaned it to him, told him it was probably the new power lines they put in. He then proceeded to ask the plumber to push the snake a little harder to see if it would break thru. At this point the plumber asked the city inspector what the likely outcome would be if the snake punctured the insulation on a high voltage feed line, and if he was willing to take responsibility for a negative outcome when the snake exploded and the power went out on my block. He articulated the ramifications of honoring the request, so instead they dug up the road and re-routed the power lines ( a bundle of 4 that could not have been more perfectly centered thru my waste line if you had tried).

If you want to play technician, you need to play technician. Good grief.
Yes. All of us should already have the necessary Wiha or similar insulated tools, gloves and eye protection.
 
Ummm,

Sorry, can't agree with you here. This is not a microwave oven or a TV you get at best buy. It's more like a split a/c system or something. If you are not comfortable cracking the case, I'm thinking you probably should not have purchased it in the first place. I for one would be happy to open up a box to save the trouble of shipping back and re-wiring everything to a new box, if it could be fixed with a spare part instead.

If you are so stupid you are going to throw a screwdriver around willy-nilly inside the cabinet, and don't know how to work a multi-meter what the hell are you doing self-installing something that can easily kill you even if you install it correctly? You may want to re-think what you just said. If the package AC on the roof goes out, I'm not going to call the company I bought it from and ask for an RA number, then hire a crane and rip it off the roof. I'm going to get a technician out and try and figure out what is wrong. In the case of DIY YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN. There is an implicit understanding you have enough competency/knowledge to replace a component or take some readings with a meter without getting killed. If this is not the case you should hire one. If there is magic smoke coming from the cabinet, and that is dangerous, you need to articulate it properly to the support technician. Generally once you make it clear the proper course of action will be taken. For example:

They ran all new HV wires thru the neighborhood with a boring project about 10 years ago. About 6 months later I notice my plumbing drains were backed up. (Just me, and sometimes my son we didn't use a lot) I noted the problem at the cleanout on the way to the street. I called the city, they said it was my problem unless I could prove the issue was under the road. I called a plumber, he ran a snake and camera, followed the line, identified the blockage about 3 feet off the curb in the road. City inspector finally came out, I explaned it to him, told him it was probably the new power lines they put in. He then proceeded to ask the plumber to push the snake a little harder to see if it would break thru. At this point the plumber asked the city inspector what the likely outcome would be if the snake punctured the insulation on a high voltage feed line, and if he was willing to take responsibility for a negative outcome when the snake exploded and the power went out on my block. He articulated the ramifications of honoring the request, so instead they dug up the road and re-routed the power lines ( a bundle of 4 that could not have been more perfectly centered thru my waste line if you had tried).

If you want to play technician, you need to play technician. Good grief.
When sparks or smoke and sizzling noises are coming out of the product its not SAFE for the customer to be messing around with the product. The original poster mentions this.

That's pretty much common sense.

He said :
I hear loud popping coming from one of the inverters and all the loads in my home drop that were connected to the inverter output. There is a strong burning electronics smell and a light haze in the room the inverter is in.

This is not customer repair territory this is rma/warranty territory.

Sure were expected to attach wires to the lugs to feed stuff into and get stuff out of these units. We are NOT expected to open them up to fix stuff inside. SS puts a sticker on there saying warranty void is opened or something alone those lines as was mentioned so its pretty clear they don't want or expect you to go into that part of the unit. So for a tech to tell the customer to open it up and mess around is exactly what I was referring to in the post your quoted so I will fully stand behind what I said.

You said :
In the case of DIY YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN.

I say no your are NOT the technician. You are the INSTALLER which is NOT the same thing.
 
If I'm the technician, the warranty can't be voided by me opening it.

If I'm the technician, if I say it needs to be RMA'd or that I need "x" part sent to me under warranty, who are they to argue with me? I'm the dang technician onsite.

They don't get to use you as the onsite technician, but not give you the benefits of such. F that.

If they don't want to RMA things or listen to you when you say things, they need to start contracting for onsite services, just like Dell and other PC manufacturers do with their onsite service.
 
If I'm the technician, the warranty can't be voided by me opening it.

If I'm the technician, if I say it needs to be RMA'd or that I need "x" part sent to me under warranty, who are they to argue with me? I'm the dang technician onsite.

They don't get to use you as the onsite technician, but not give you the benefits of such. F that.

If they don't want to RMA things or listen to you when you say things, they need to start contracting for onsite services, just like Dell and other PC manufacturers do with their onsite service.
Its time someone starts a biz doing this for the companies selling these. I mean if they can do it for pc's like dell does its doable.

Heck my mother has one of those jazzy scooters and they had a tech that comes out and services it if something goes wrong.
 
When sparks or smoke and sizzling noises are coming out of the product its not SAFE for the customer to be messing around with the product. The original poster mentions this.

That's pretty much common sense.

He said :
I hear loud popping coming from one of the inverters and all the loads in my home drop that were connected to the inverter output. There is a strong burning electronics smell and a light haze in the room the inverter is in.

This is not customer repair territory this is rma/warranty territory.

Sure were expected to attach wires to the lugs to feed stuff into and get stuff out of these units. We are NOT expected to open them up to fix stuff inside. SS puts a sticker on there saying warranty void is opened or something alone those lines as was mentioned so its pretty clear they don't want or expect you to go into that part of the unit. So for a tech to tell the customer to open it up and mess around is exactly what I was referring to in the post your quoted so I will fully stand behind what I said.

You said :
In the case of DIY YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN.

I say no your are NOT the technician. You are the INSTALLER which is NOT the same thing.
WOW!

We are splitting a pretty fine hair. I'm not an HVAC technician, I'm just an "Installer". OK. If you don't mind could you find a technician to install my unit? This is not hooking up a dishwasher, with a pigtail, water line and a drain hose, if that is what you were thinking you need to re-think the paradigm. Oh, and before you send the dishwasher back because it doesn't drain, you might want to take the plug out of the disposal. In your case I guess we just pull it and take it back to the store.

Hey, let's pop the cover and see if you can see anything cooked. Oh, the relay board is singed, hmm, can you pull the harness and kick it back on to see if it's still smoking? Can you... "I turned it back on, more magic smoke coming from near the (whatever). I think we are past taking readings, I'm not plugging this thing back in again, it might catch fire! Can we get an RA started?" YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN. Threre guy on the other end of the line is not standing there, you have to articulate. If he insists on readings, ask for a supervisor, or just make something up. "Sorry I can't see thru the smoke".

This is not unique to SS. I can't tell you how many times I've had this conversation or one like it. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
 
And if I had nickle for every time someone told me something with absolute certainty... My computer is smoking and it shut off. Arrive, space heater under desk caught something on fire and tripped breaker. on power strip . . Smoke billowed up through cable holes in the back of the desk. As a self-technician you must be able to articulate a reasoned persuasive response. This is about being asked to crack open the box and take some readings. It is a reasonable request, if there is not an understanding of the implications.
 
WOW!

We are splitting a pretty fine hair. I'm not an HVAC technician, I'm just an "Installer". OK. If you don't mind could you find a technician to install my unit? This is not hooking up a dishwasher, with a pigtail, water line and a drain hose, if that is what you were thinking you need to re-think the paradigm. Oh, and before you send the dishwasher back because it doesn't drain, you might want to take the plug out of the disposal. In your case I guess we just pull it and take it back to the store.

Hey, let's pop the cover and see if you can see anything cooked. Oh, the relay board is singed, hmm, can you pull the harness and kick it back on to see if it's still smoking? Can you... "I turned it back on, more magic smoke coming from near the (whatever). I think we are past taking readings, I'm not plugging this thing back in again, it might catch fire! Can we get an RA started?" YOU ARE THE TECHNICIAN. Threre guy on the other end of the line is not standing there, you have to articulate. If he insists on readings, ask for a supervisor, or just make something up. "Sorry I can't see thru the smoke".

This is not unique to SS. I can't tell you how many times I've had this conversation or one like it. To say otherwise is disingenuous.
A person who purchases a mini split is a end user normally.

A person who doesn't do hvac for a living cannot legally install a normal ducted hvac system. They cannot legally purchase the freon to go in it and those systems as I would expect you to know are not precharged.

A mini split purchased from home depot or amazon is precharged.

The mini split purchaser is an installer in the this case NOT a technician.

The hvac ducted installer would be considered to some extent a technician but I know several "technicians" around here who run a hvac business who couldn't diagnose a bad controller board other than to determine it was dead. Their eyes glaze over looking at the board itself...

But they could be considered a technician anyways.

Seems the mini split purchaser is more like the solar diy guys at this point. Guess what? They don't work on the electrical "guts" in the units. They are expected to mount the indoor unit, drill a hole for the lines and connect them and purge the lines and MAYBE pull a vacuum. Then connect the power wires to the inputs on the outside unit and plug in the control lines between the inside and outside unit. That's about it.

They are not expected to be able to diagnose anything inside the units themselves. That's what the warranty is for... If they are really lost and have no support because they bought it from a shady vendor they will call a hvac tech aka YOU.

This is installer vs tech.

Also getting an end user to turn on a ac powered device that is emitting smoke to then try to diagnose it isn't something an end user should be expected to do.

Again this is where that warranty comes in.

If someone who purchases an aio or whatever in the diy solar area has enough background to feel comfortable working on the unit (which I would qualify as a person who could diagnose the unit) then working with the company to diagnose the problem is reasonable. But to expect that it should be required by all end users is not reasonable at all. These are not a kit that is shipped with breadboards that we build into an aio. These are fully built and warrantied devices which are read to use. Not some diy kit job. The op did not feel comfortable working on it and they had every right to feel that way if they are not experienced or confident at it.
 
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