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Solar has been hijacked/co opted. A wakeup?

According to google, the average US household uses around 10-12 MWh / year, and the average EV uses less than 1 MWh / year. Even if every household added an EV, that would increase electricity usage less than 10%. Not only that, but EV chargers have very good support for charging off-peak, and the grid is necessarily sized to peak usage, not average or off-peak usage, so that should have little effect.

Add to that the V2G chargers that are coming online that can actually be used just like home batteries to peak shave, and the obvious additional incentive that they add to install solar panels, and it's very easy (IMO) to come to the exact opposite conclusion that large-scale use of electric vehicle could drastically improve reliability of the grid and decrease costs.
My quick google search says 4.3 megawatts per year. Translating to 33-40% increase in electricity usage if everyone had an EV.

The elephant in the room is the fact that there are almost twice as many cars in the USA as there are houses.

Interesting point about solar and power backup systems being a lot more feasible with an EV being a backup battery. I would believe that this would only be useful for emergency power as most people would be selling their power to the grid.
 

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Here’s the move:
An ev to daily with V2L as well as 100kwh+ of home battery integrated into one’s home solar
A diesel tow rig with a couple drums of red diesel at home for the farm equipment, generator, and truck and collect used veggie oil
A Toyota rock crawler with a 22re, propane conversion and an at home 500gal propane tank for the other generator and gas appliances if desired
A Prius for the significant other to daily which also functions as a backup generator for the house via midnite charge controller
4 fuel types, 4 backup sources, multiple use cases, never stranded if one form of infrastructure goes down
(Don’t forget to keep your bike tires pumped up and your shoe laces tight too, heck an e-bike is a great option)
 
Screen grabs from google
 

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Never started my system wondering how long it will pay me back, not doing grid tie pretty much assured that won't happen, but I don't care about that. We have frequent power outages here, and I was tired of dragging out candles and battery powered lamps, and hoping and praying the power comes back on before our food spoils in the fridges/freezers.

Up until last month we didn't have any battery backup, but now we have enough to last us overnight at least. It's not a lot but it is reassuring to know it's there if we need it. Like tonight we have some storms out west of us, so we're ready. The battery just finished charging up, so we have a full tank, so to speak.

The tax credits were an added incentive I will admit. Plus over the last couple of years the technology has accelerated so much, and now it's somewhat affordable. And addicting..
 
Average miles driven per year is about 14,263 miles. If EVs are going to replace gas cars, they will be driven the same way and distances.

A model 3 gets 4.56 miles per kWh

14263/4.56 = 3.1kWh or 3.1MWh/year. That's a 25-30% increase.
I predict it will be much worse than you think:
Our Ice SUV was x6 the cost per mile of the Kona EV. With the ICE we would limit trips to the city to a few per week (75km round trip) but with the super low cost of the EV, we don't think twice about making two trips or more in a single day. I can tell you the mileage on the EV is nearly double (per year) of our last ICE SUV because the operating costs are so much lower. A round trip in my 3/4 ton Ram is nearly $20, while making the run in the Kona (even paying utility-rates to charge it) is $1.40 Guess which one I take, if I can.

The net effect I will tell you, will be: people will drive more, Perhaps a lot more.
Imagine if that 14,263 miles average use goes to 30,000 per year.
It would be best if the infrastructure needed gets underway sooner than later.
 
Yep. I just can't stomach an estimate off by 3X.

This article states that the current grid can handle 26 million EVs at 3.8MWh each in off-peak capacity:


Has some other linked sources.

You are correct. I was looking at usage in the EU, which apparently is much less.

I see 26 million EVs mentioned in that article, but I don't see where it states that it's all the grid can handle. It says it's only 2.4% of the total grid capacity, and that's the number expected by 2030.
 
I predict it will be much worse than you think:
Our Ice SUV was x6 the cost per mile of the Kona EV. With the ICE we would limit trips to the city to a few per week (75km round trip) but with the super low cost of the EV, we don't think twice about making two trips or more in a single day. I can tell you the mileage on the EV is nearly double (per year) of our last ICE SUV because the operating costs are so much lower. A round trip in my 3/4 ton Ram is nearly $20, while making the run in the Kona (even paying utility-rates to charge it) is $1.40 Guess which one I take, if I can.

The net effect I will tell you, will be: people will drive more, Perhaps a lot more.
Imagine if that 14,263 miles average use goes to 30,000 per year.
It would be best if the infrastructure needed gets underway sooner than later.

You may be right, but not for me, at least until self-driving becomes a reality because I hate to drive! :)

That said, it is also much more enjoyable in an EV, so there's that...

I had to drive my CX-9 ICE today to pick up some lumber, and really hated it!
 
hippees in 1970 turned solar gurus
That’s an inaccurate generalization.
I was born in 1965. I did a ‘science fair’ project in 1978 (that got laughed at, btw- teachers explained how impractical it was :rolleyes: ) that focused on solar and I even created a small homemade solar hot water heater and made several storyboards depicting the efficacy of solar power, one describing passive heating.
And I am as far from hippie as you can get, still take a shower every day, too. :)
Being self sufficient is hard to place a monetary value on. Also have a wood stove
That’s my goal for next summer: unpropane myself except for cooking maybe hot water.
I think I want to have ~2000gals of 190*F water battery.
hippees in 1970
I live in Vermont, grew up in NH
Lotta independence kinda people that don’t look, smell, or sound like the teepee land rover people we had in the woods around loudon, nh ?
still think most of us are independent types.
I do keep track of my ROI but it’s not the sole reason for doing this.
In my circumstances that I chose to change my financial position my initial small system was essentially paid for in three weeks because it permitted me to live essentially cost free. While my total solar panel potential (if I activated them all) is now up to ~5kW of panels, ROI was my secondary motivation. An unanticipated benefit is that I love playing around with this stuff so there’s the hobby factor…
Most of us see the writing on the wall and are trying to prepare as best we can.
In my previous location a neighbor called me. They heard my shop vac running. They stated I was probably the only one in town vacuuming anything because they’d been without power for over six hours….
Prepared? That is a comfort.
grid won't be coming on our property
I have two powerco poles right on my property. Powerco wanted $3500 to connect me. My system’s been paid for a coupla years now because it enabled me living for basically nothing. $3,500 so they can bill me every month? Nope.
the average EV uses less than 1 MWh / year
Most people aren’t average; the average EV is a skewed statistic because the population subset of EV owners do not reflect the average dinosaur fuel owner.
A general descriptor or stereotype as a euphemism is a method of speech to establish context not call out the unidentifiable fictitious members of the stereotype group…
per year is about 14,263 miles.
Math is so… revealing
most people would be selling their power to the grid.
but that will decline as the emerging market we exist in currently becomes mature and is manipulated to maximize profit as the cost/benefit of individual contribution reaches its ‘natural’ price level if spoken in an Adam Smith context.
not doing grid tie pretty much assured that won't happen
✅
 
You are correct. I was looking at usage in the EU, which apparently is much less.

I see 26 million EVs mentioned in that article, but I don't see where it states that it's all the grid can handle. It says it's only 2.4% of the total grid capacity, and that's the number expected by 2030.

Apparently, I read what I wanted to. I couldn't find the source I was looking for that pegged it at around 30 million, and 26 fit too neatly. My apologies.
 
I started fiddling with solar because of money, with absolutely no idea what I was doing. I mean none. Got straight to the deep end with 44kWp vertical "no shadows" setup with 2x hybrid inverters plus 2x AC coupled GT inverters and ~110kWh LFP/FLA batts + 2x UPSs. I DIYed and ordered everything from China to keep ROI as low as possible (~5years). I hope I have learned something, but probably not.

Now I have 14kWp more panels and 50kVA diesel genny waiting to be installed. I don't think this is about ROI anymore.
Admitting powerlessness over solar is the first step for you to break the cycle and recover from TS (Timselectric Syndrome™).
 
I predict it will be much worse than you think:
Our Ice SUV was x6 the cost per mile of the Kona EV. With the ICE we would limit trips to the city to a few per week (75km round trip) but with the super low cost of the EV, we don't think twice about making two trips or more in a single day. I can tell you the mileage on the EV is nearly double (per year) of our last ICE SUV because the operating costs are so much lower. A round trip in my 3/4 ton Ram is nearly $20, while making the run in the Kona (even paying utility-rates to charge it) is $1.40 Guess which one I take, if I can.

The net effect I will tell you, will be: people will drive more, Perhaps a lot more.
Imagine if that 14,263 miles average use goes to 30,000 per year.
It would be best if the infrastructure needed gets underway sooner than later.
Jevons Paradox or The Efficiency Dilemma.

But that’s where friendly big brother steps in a remotely limits your driving, etc. 15 minute cities and all.
 
The impact of increasing fuel economy was not less driving !
People tend to manage their use to fit a budget. The low cost of EV miles compared with ICE miles is already changing behaviour on my homestead.
That said, charging at home vs charging at commercial charging stations along the highway is quite a bit more expensive.
 
I dont believe the writing on the wall could be any more clear.

It is my understanding that grid power will be vastly more expensive when >50% of people use EVs and that will most likely take a decade to fix brown out issues and find price parity with the "new world" of electric everything.

Oh and there is that murmur of "extremists" targeting the power grid.

Then there is that pesky carrington event that happened in 1859. Most agree that it will happen again and our magnetosphere is much weaker than in 1859.

When the government starts to mumble about things, it usually is a nice slow rollout to catastrophic end. :)
Nail on the head dude.
On every point.
But how would solar panels and the electronics stand up to a carrington event?
wouldn’t that fry the panels?
carrington
 
But how would solar panels and the electronics stand up to a carrington event?
wouldn’t that fry the panels?
I dont think anyone can possibly know. I have read so many conflicting opinions that I dont even know what end is up.

In my uneducated opinion, I think that anything that is essentially a wide area antennae (eg. power lines ) would be affected.
That is specifically what happened in 1859.

Perhaps everything plugged into the grid would be affected.
Perhaps solar panels would be fine with the exception of every single diode in them being destroyed.
Perhaps the only change we would have to make is to disconnect our PV after sun set to prevent back feeding the panels after diode desruction. After diode bypass surgery of course

Boom!
:)
 

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That’s an inaccurate generalization.
I was born in 1965. I did a ‘science fair’ project in 1978 (that got laughed at, btw- teachers explained how impractical it was :rolleyes: ) that focused on solar and I even created a small homemade solar hot water heater and made several storyboards depicting the efficacy of solar power, one describing passive heating.
I was born in 1966, and we had solar hot water heaters on our mobile home in the '70s. I remember my dad talking about 'solar babies', which I think was the way solar tax rebates worked back then. They got to claim extra dependents on their tax form for some number of years.

FWIW, I think it was probably mostly a scam back then and doubt it saved more than it cost, but it was a start.

As for the overall topic, who cares where it started or what the motivation is, but it's currently one of the best hopes for making a sustainable energy source and ecology for our children and their. It really saddens me to see what's transpired over just my lifetime, and what we're leaving for later generations.
 
My motivation is simple.
Money
Nah, your full of poopey :ROFLMAO:. Nobody builds/buys what you have for the money. I'm trying to catch up but you've spent serious coin not to mention the "Free" labor setting up all your stuff. Your motivation is the same as most of us zealots here. Bragging rights. Having a little fun. Proving you can do it. Being independent! Then when it saves you a few bucks every month we SAY it's for the money.

Now if we can just get the pesky little woman to let me buy a few more batteries without having a siezure . . .

If it's just about the money, the best ROI is to put together a simple grid tie setup, no batteries, micro-inverters, to cover peak.

When all is said and done the forum is going to chip in and put up a bronze statue of Tim in a field of solar panels. . .
 
who cares where it started or what the motivation is, but it's currently one of the best hopes for making a sustainable energy source and ecology for our children and their. It really saddens me to see what's transpired over just my lifetime, and what we're leaving for later generations
Everything is a trade off. Oil ain’t as evil as some would have us believe, and electric cars aren’t the end-all either. We’re not building enough nuke plants in the USA and hydro isn’t really being developed. Electric cars more often than not are charged up using petroleum-fired or even coal-fired electricity.

Not everything is as it seems, nothing is
 
I dont think anyone can possibly know. I have read so many conflicting opinions that I dont even know what end is up.

In my uneducated opinion, I think that anything that is essentially a wide area antennae (eg. power lines ) would be affected.
That is specifically what happened in 1859.

Perhaps everything plugged into the grid would be affected.
Perhaps solar panels would be fine with the exception of every single diode in them being destroyed.
Perhaps the only change we would have to make is to disconnect our PV after sun set to prevent back feeding the panels after diode desruction. After diode bypass surgery of course

Boom!
:)
Yes kind of my thinking too.
a CME is more of a long wave compared to an EMP.
I think the EMP actually changes the properties of semiconductors
With the scale of todays electronics so small it mig be a bigger problem.

perhaps if you have advanced notice shorting out each panel to itself.
 
Yes kind of my thinking too.
a CME is more of a long wave compared to an EMP.
I think the EMP actually changes the properties of semiconductors
With the scale of todays electronics so small it mig be a bigger problem.

perhaps if you have advanced notice shorting out each panel to itself.
Regarding EMPs. If you have advanced notice, whatever mitigation efforts you try, DO NOT think everything is fine after the event. Most likely there will be 2-4 strikes even days apart to make damn sure everything is FUBAR. Best to lie low for a long while after.
 

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