Future of DIY LiFePO4 looks bleak…

[wattmatters]

But I live rural, and easily get away with a lot of rule-breaking behaviour.

I would not do what I have if I were still in the city.

An EV with bidirectional AC coupled inverter would be attractive to me. Most of the time it's battery would get used for commuting, saving on gasoline. During power outages it provides backup power, augmenting a small AGM battery at heart of system.

As extra backup capacity, V2L is very handy. I would use it to replace the generator as the backup supply for the home battery system.
Most EVs have this, except for Tesla. It's a glaring hole in their capability.

Our next car will be an EV and it will have this capability.

V2G is still someway down the track. The tech does exist and is in limited use but it's a much bigger cost (not cost effective as yet) and also requires the regulatory environment to be sorted out.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Our next car will be an EV and it will have this capability.

V2G is still someway down the track. The tech does exist and is in limited use but it's a much bigger cost (not cost effective as yet) and also requires the regulatory environment to be sorted out.

A few already have it - F150 lightning comes to mind, Kia/Hyundai say their 2024's will have V2L capable offerings. maybe this will only be available at a premium. Our current EV doesn't have V2L, and my "Official Solar Tester" has said "Your not allowed to pull the EV apart to attempt hot-wiring it to the solar" (Aw, why not!!) Geez.
Edit:
Oh maybe you meant V2G = grid.
That could be interesting if they could set up the technology to allow exess grid power to be short term stored in Autos that are plugged into the grid, and then pull it back out again later when they need short term spike in energy.

 

[Zwy]

DiY for life! 18650 batterystore has their Envision 305ah "Grade B" cells at $79! ( https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/envision-aesc-305ah-grade-b-cells-3-2v-lifepo4-battery)

At that price, I should buy 16 for my golf cart. I have 4 cells out of 54 that are runners. I could change those out and use them with the 12 Envision in my cart. Or buy 20 and just use 16 for the cart and make up a 12V battery with the runners.

 

[wattmatters]

Oh maybe you meant V2G = grid.

Yes. V2G (grid) is in trials in some places but the device which controls it is very expensive (early days, to be expected) and it requires regulatory approval (as you would expect for any device which can send power to the grid).

V2L (load) is pretty common in EVs today and is a handy option to have for power on the road or as a backup option.

 

[OffGridForGood]

It has the potential to be super efficient - so in N.America I am sure they will try to kill it. LOL! (or set it up so we pay, and 'they' make money from it.)
Really this is what I am trying to do right now, at least during the spring-summer-fall timeline, excess kWh= EV charging. But I can't go the other way back again - yet!
For winter months, or rainny week anytime, we use the grid for EV charging, set to charge off peak when the price is half cost from 7PM to 7AM plenty of time for a full charge while we sleep. Electric is super cheap compared with gasoline, 7.1Cents/kWh, vs $1.60/L. The math works out that per km, the EV is under 2-cents, while the gas-pig (my 3/4Ton pickup) is 32-cents/km, plus the EV never needs oil changes or exhaust work.

The BEST thing about an EV is not having to wait for heat after starting during winter, the heat is instant. LOL yeah you sit in the truck while it takes 20 minutes to warm up from minus 40 and see if this is a key feature or not!

 

[yabert]

Our current EV doesn't have V2L, and my "Official Solar Tester" has said "Your not allowed to pull the EV apart to attempt hot-wiring it to the solar" (Aw, why not!!) Geez.

Hahaha! Oh come on, do like me and wired you EV to your house by a suspicious manner ?
Tips 1, orange connectors are high voltage.
Tips 2, when EV is turn off and the battery contactor are open, there is no chance to find High Voltage dc at terminals of diferrent connectors... that no chance to die.
Below my Bolt EV (Vanabolt) connected to my house inverter for the first time

 

[Sanwizard]

It has the potential to be super efficient - so in N.America I am sure they will try to kill it. LOL! (or set it up so we pay, and 'they' make money from it.)
Really this is what I am trying to do right now, at least during the spring-summer-fall timeline, excess kWh= EV charging. But I can't go the other way back again - yet!
For winter months, or rainny week anytime, we use the grid for EV charging, set to charge off peak when the price is half cost from 7PM to 7AM plenty of time for a full charge while we sleep. Electric is super cheap compared with gasoline, 7.1Cents/kWh, vs $1.60/L. The math works out that per km, the EV is under 2-cents, while the gas-pig (my 3/4Ton pickup) is 32-cents/km, plus the EV never needs oil changes or exhaust work.

But your pickup still goes a long way with no worries about finding a working charger. Every vehicle has its use. Diesel for heavy work, Gas for long distance, Kerosene for jet flight, liquid oxygen and methane for space flight, electric bike or scooter for getting around town, or EV to get around town in comfort and style.

Being forced to use only one method is insane. Can you see the UN forcing NASA to use only electric motors by 2030 to get into orbit? That would be an interesting discussion.

 

[OffGridForGood]

no one forced us to buy an EV?
But like you say, it is not for trips to the lake for camping - not enough range, not enough ground clearance, it is a commuter for trips to the city and back. Today it made two trips with zero power from the grid (solar charged it) in November it will cost less than 2cents a km (3 cents per mile). If she would let me, I would drive it more than the truck! - but not to pull a 8000 lb trailer or to go pick up heavy or long materials. LOL - all things in their place for sure.

 

[740GLE]

Yeap, based on what I know, there will have tons of high quality Tesla LFP cells in the scrapyard in China, Europe and Canada, but not in the US.

LFP model 3 are state side, just not in mass numbers.

Also I think they are CATL cells built out for Tesla packs.

 

[740GLE]

I disagree, fossil fuels are finite, and needed for extraction, manufacturing, shipping, and the cost of those fuels will continue to rise, and will rise dramatically some day soon..Like my electric bill which doubled for my rental property in the last year..This fossil fuel increase will put the cost of these batteries out of the reach of alot of people..In our inevitable unstoppable future they will be like bars of gold, highly sought after and coveted...

same can be said for lithium, especially once safe/clean mining if factored in.

There’s supposedly a large LI reserve in undeveloped western mountains of Maine. The environannies will never let it be mined, cause Maine land was never harvested for capital purpose, I’m looking at you Moland Springs.

Maine Has the Lithium America Needs, But Won't Allow Mining

Gem hunters in Maine found one of the richest lithium deposits in the U.S. State laws mean they can't mine it.

time.com

 

[dstar]

And here I thought building your own computer involved ICs, perf board, and a wire-wrap tool.

View attachment 166884

View attachment 166885 View attachment 166887

We've got like one forum member who is building his own inverter.
One who is building his own battery cells (size for testing, not useful, of a different chemistry).
The rest of us just bolt wires onto things.

The one above is how I started out. Only after I became an EMI guy did I understand messy is better, and I've taken that to heart.

View attachment 166886

I did this in college decades ago. The computer was built around the 8085 processor and had to be programmed with hex. The joys and memories of yesteryear.

 

[740GLE]

I did this in college decades ago. The computer was built around the 8085 processor and had to be programmed with hex. The joys and memories of yesteryear.

2002 ECE 101 had freshman wire wrapping discrete components into a full H bridge “cart” motor controller. Jeeze that can be considered “decades ago” now too.

I’m guessing they updated the program not too much longer, t pins and wrapping tools were getting hard to find.

 

[fafrd]

same can be said for lithium, especially once safe/clean mining if factored in.

There’s supposedly a large LI reserve in undeveloped western mountains of Maine. The environannies will never let it be mined, cause Maine land was never harvested for capital purpose, I’m looking at you Moland Springs.

Maine Has the Lithium America Needs, But Won't Allow Mining

Gem hunters in Maine found one of the richest lithium deposits in the U.S. State laws mean they can't mine it.

time.com

Lithium deposit found in US may be among world’s largest, study finds

A new paper published late last month in Science Advances details what may be in the largest deposit of lithium in the world, located in northern Nevada.

www.foxbusiness.com

‘A deposit of lithium recently discovered along the Nevada-Oregon border may be among the world’s largest, having potentially huge implications for the transition to electric vehicles.’

‘The deposit exists in the McDermitt Caldera, a caldera approximately 28 miles long and 22 miles wide. It is believed that the caldera contains around 20 to 40 million metric tons of lithium – a figure that would dwarf deposits in Chile and Australia.’

 

[Hedges]

Yes. V2G (grid) is in trials in some places but the device which controls it is very expensive (early days, to be expected) and it requires regulatory approval (as you would expect for any device which can send power to the grid).

The device already exists, the GT inverter. Sunny Boy 2500 was used with PV, wind, hydro, and (experimentally) with Prius batteries 20 years ago. Of course, that does what it wants, when it wants. The Prius experiment was meant for grid support.

Sunny Boy Storage has been out for a few years and Hybrid Energy (similar but with PV as well as HV battery inputs) should be on the shelf just about now. Those charge and discharge with AC coupling.

The controls which might be needed are for the grid to instruct a massive number of AC coupled batteries (EV batteries in this case.)

 

[G00SE]

Can you see the UN forcing NASA to use only electric motors by 2030 to get into orbit? That would be an interesting discussion.

after the last 4 years? Yes

 

[cs1234]

Where's my darn space elevator already!

 

[Danke]

Where's my darn space elevator already!

Deliveries were attempted. No one home to sign for it. You owe 25% restocking fee.

Would you like to re-order?

Current status:

OUT OF STOCK

Text to be notified when available.

 

[RebelRob]

DiY for life! 18650 batterystore has their Envision 305ah "Grade B" cells at $79! ( https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/envision-aesc-305ah-grade-b-cells-3-2v-lifepo4-battery) There's going to be ebbs and flows in value, but the more volume comes into play the cheaper the stuff gets, even for DiY.

To comment about the relationship between early computers and diy, there just weren't that many people into computers back then as well, which is similar to the energy storage market today. I'd wager MORE people build and diy their own computers now than because of the abundance of uses, parts and supplies. Ive built all my own over the past 20 years. The percentage of people diy computers is lower but that's b3cause the usage is WAY up compared to the 80s, when the only way to get the specs you wanted at a still insane price was to DiY.

Big difference building computers back then today...That was a complicated process..The DIY components and software has come a long way..

 

[BuffaloTrace]

Big difference building computers back then today...That was a complicated process..The DIY components and software has come a long way..

Right exactly, that has helped a lot too. Things get better as time progresses, especially in the diy arena. The software and it's compatability with the hardware has come a long way as far as computers go. But there is always going to be the new stuff, even with computers in the diy space. It wasn't too long ago that liquid coolers, and lights, were really only a very expensive option or done through custom diy. Now it's very common, and the information and parts are easily available to do oneself as well.

In relation to diy lifepo4, the bms, communications, and plethora of inexpensive new fangled inverters, etc is well on its way. If it's to become a main stream thing; home energy storage and power production will get easier, and better with time, especially in the diy realm. I believe we are well on our way.

 

[RebelRob]

A Toyota Prius is worth owning..As far as full electric goes, only homemade electric bikes/motorcycles are worth it so far..The price, the difficulty in repair/maintenance, places to charge, range, no thanks..Not to mention what it would take to retrofit the grid, if we were to fully switch to electric..Which will never ever happen..However far we get in the next 10--15 years(if we are lucky) is as far as we will ever get...

 

[RebelRob]

The way I see it, thanks to reality and access to great minds and peer reviewed literature, etc. We are under the clock, those who get those blue bars of gold, panels, and the other electronics while they are still being manufactured, will be few among the masses, to ever get them..The laws of thermodynamics, the laws of nature, and the laws that govern complex systems are non negotiable and have sealed our fate..We exist now, in this grace period, or lag in the time it takes stable, massive, complex planetary systems and industrial civilization to break down and collapse..Which is well known, especially in scientific circles, and around the fringes in government, corporate boardrooms, Wall Street, etc., Every action has an equal and opposite reaction..Trillions upon trillions, upon trillions of greedy, ignorant and destructive actions have existential, exponential and apocalyptic reactions..As one would expect, we are not escaping the consequences of our collective behavior..The sad part is that I'm an optimist in everything I do, and not a person on Earth would dispute that claim..It's just where we are...Exactly where every other civilization to ever exist has found itself..In the process of collapse..The scope and scale are different but the root causes remain the same..Which is celebrating and rewarding greed, ego and violence, and those characteristics being foundational..They don't combine well with technology, and they never have..Just think back..."All of our exalted technological progress, civilization for that matter, is comparable to an axe in the hand of a pathological criminal" Albert Einstein

 

[BuffaloTrace]

The way I see it, thanks to reality and access to great minds and peer reviewed literature, etc. We are under the clock, those who get those blue bars of gold, panels, and the other electronics while they are still being manufactured, will be few among the masses, to ever get them..The laws of thermodynamics, the laws of nature, and the laws that govern complex systems are non negotiable and have sealed our fate..We exist now, in this grace period, or lag in the time it takes stable, massive, complex planetary systems and industrial civilization to break down and collapse..Which is well known, especially in scientific circles, and around the fringes in government, corporate boardrooms, Wall Street, etc., Every action has an equal and opposite reaction..Trillions upon trillions, upon trillions of greedy, ignorant and destructive actions have existential, exponential and apocalyptic reactions..As one would expect, we are not escaping the consequences of our collective behavior..The sad part is that I'm an optimist in everything I do, and not a person on Earth would dispute that claim..It's just where we are...Exactly where every other civilization to ever exist has found itself..In the process of collapse..The scope and scale are different but the root causes remain the same..Which is celebrating and rewarding greed, ego and violence, and those characteristics being foundational..They don't combine well with technology, and they never have..Just think back..."All of our exalted technological progress, civilization for that matter, is comparable to an axe in the hand of a pathological criminal" Albert Einstein

So, you're agreeing that the future of diy lifepo4 is indeed bleak, on the basis that the lifepo4 cells themselves will be rare like gold someday. No one will be able to diy lifepo4 combined with solar and their corresponding electronics because it will all be unobtainable for the average user...very cryptic indeed sir.

 

[Danke]

The way I see it, thanks to reality and access to great minds and peer reviewed literature, etc. We are under the clock, those who get those blue bars of gold, panels, and the other electronics while they are still being manufactured, will be few among the masses, to ever get them..The laws of thermodynamics, the laws of nature, and the laws that govern complex systems are non negotiable and have sealed our fate..We exist now, in this grace period, or lag in the time it takes stable, massive, complex planetary systems and industrial civilization to break down and collapse..Which is well known, especially in scientific circles, and around the fringes in government, corporate boardrooms, Wall Street, etc., Every action has an equal and opposite reaction..Trillions upon trillions, upon trillions of greedy, ignorant and destructive actions have existential, exponential and apocalyptic reactions..As one would expect, we are not escaping the consequences of our collective behavior..The sad part is that I'm an optimist in everything I do, and not a person on Earth would dispute that claim..It's just where we are...Exactly where every other civilization to ever exist has found itself..In the process of collapse..The scope and scale are different but the root causes remain the same..Which is celebrating and rewarding greed, ego and violence, and those characteristics being foundational..They don't combine well with technology, and they never have..Just think back..."All of our exalted technological progress, civilization for that matter, is comparable to an axe in the hand of a pathological criminal" Albert Einstein

 

[Nobodybusiness]

And their Chinese build model 3's

Are you saying the Model 3 is made in china or the parts?
Not following your thoughts.

 

[houseofancients]

Are you saying the Model 3 is made in china or the parts?
Not following your thoughts.

Gigafactory Shanghai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

all of the above