MTM98290
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2022
- Messages
- 312
Free markets can still have laws. It is when the government and corporations join together to design, implement, and enforce laws in a coordinated way that problems arise.
Half price electric cars
- Thread starter Tulex
- Start date
Free markets can still have laws. It is when the government and corporations join together to design, implement, and enforce laws in a coordinated way that problems arise.
wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Some almost do (e.g. massive hydro storage), but infinite batteries are not required.
Hertz is ditching (some?) electric cars in part because companies like Tesla don't give volume discounts to Hertz. At to that that in China there is a price war going on between the 300+electric car manufactures and profits are dropping. IF other countries allow car imports from China, (under a free market they would) The traditional companies are in a world of hurt as they are too slow to innovate.
gas absolutely skyrocketed and went insane in 2007-2008 wtf you talking about
ban lobbyist then
In reality that is correct, should we call them regulated markets? (Which is something a few people here are aggressively against)
I have a problem with corporations having so much influence on government. I hear that in the US they can donate money to the political campaigns of politicians and in return those politicians will give subsidies to those corporations well in excess of the campaign contributions. Add to that their news media is privately owned, which means advertising dollars can and do prevent the news media pointing out the real issues in an unbiased way.
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wattmatters
Solar Wizard
Hydropower is seasonal energy storage. Pumped hydro is weeks, batteries hours. We are building large pumped hydro for just this purpose. Massive batteries are going up at a rate of knots.
Places unable to have sufficient renewables + storage can use nuclear.
Just need to end coal and most gas where possible for grid energy generation. Gas should be saved for applications that cannot be transitioned economically (e.g. many industrial processes).
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
Where are you getting this from?
| Year | National Average Gas Price (Dollars/Gallon) Then | National Average Gas Price (Dollars/Gallon) In 2022 Dollars |
|---|---|---|
| 1978 | $0.63 | $2.85 |
| 1979 | $0.86 | $3.52 |
| 1980 | $1.19 | $4.25 |
| 1981 | $1.31 | $4.25 |
teal95
Solar Addict
What's the obesity from? I'll give you a hint, it's something specific to BEVs. Modern ICE cars are tanks also but batteries put EVs on another level.
Are you literally only talking about gas here or both of them?
I got gas from the prices here. 35 cents to who the hell knows somewhere around 4
hell even in 1999 gas was still 85 cents all over colorado mountains
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
You said "gas has gone up 12x in 40-50 year"
Please explain this. I purchased a lot of fuel back then and I don't believe this is true. I posted National Average prices and price adjusted for inflation.
Right, I recall that in 2008. Some smug Prius owner tried gloating at the gas station about his mpg until I pointed out I still got upper 20s out of a car that cost me only $3500 and asked him what his car payment was.
But the highest I've paid for gas was during Obama and Biden. I paid over $4 sometime in 2010 or 2011 I think it was. Near $5 under the current clown show a year or two back. Came back down some but still higher, and been edging up again recently.
and I asked if you were talking about only gas or both of them..
and then I did explain it
need to be linked to my post again?
Yep, people buying those insanely priced cars will never see a return
I still have my car from the 1990s, still runs fine. Cost me ~4k as well
Remember when diesel was cheaper than gas pre bush? the good ol' days
Yeah not sure why diesel is so high now. Demand is part of it. Stricter regs? And then..no clue.
Also, the 10 cents difference between grades is looong gone. My toy car needs mid grade and it is like 40 cents more per gallon now. Blah.
Also, the 10 cents difference between grades is looong gone. My toy car needs mid grade and it is like 40 cents more per gallon now. Blah.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
20,000 years ?- glacial periods are 120,000 years.The Earths Temperatures Over The Past 20,000 Years Tell An Interesting Story About Climate Change (NASA) - ROUTE 66 POST
No one can argue that the earth has been warming and cooling for millions of years but the climate alarmists are getting lots of media about human caused climate change. Governments are jumping on new carbon taxes and other environmental taxes that bring in tens of billions annually promising to...route66post.com
The interglacial periods are short, the glacial periods are far longer - the graph above has the temps invertered I expect.
We are not (today) under two miles of ice, in a glacial period, we are in the latest interglacial period -ie the short warm period between ice ages.
If the pattern were repeating as ice cores indicate in the past, it should be getting colder every winter at this point in the cycle.
The missing 10c grade difference is infuriating lol.
I still pay it but sheesh. Although if I can find an ethanol free station I go there over getting blended premium
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
I read your post several times. It is a little tough to read without punctuation and complete sentences.
My post is clearly labeled and is talking about gasoline prices that you claimed have risen 12 fold in 50 years.
So you bought gas for $.85/gallon in 1999.
$.85 x 12 = $10.20/ gallon?
Where are you getting this 12X increase in gasoline prices?
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=EMA_EPM0_PWA_SCO_DPG&f=M
https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/
Colorado looks to be a lower cost state on average so it would probably be better to stick with national average prices for comparison.
Tulex
Solar Wizard
Actually, they vary, and don't necessarily match up with the Milankovitch cycle.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I am sure batteries are reason number one for you and why you should not even think about driving or owning an EV. I an sure you have twenty five other reasons as well. You will be able to drive the car of your choice for at least the next twenty years. After that I have no idea what the choices will be and I wont care.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
I don't know about his experience but 50 years ago in the late sixties I remember gasoline in California at $0.27 a gallon. With a fill up, even with a VW with a 9 gallon tank I would get a free drinking glass. Now prices are routinely above $4.00 a gallon in California.
Sparktastic
New Member
Have a look on YouTube for unsold Chinese EVs! There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of brand new EVs sitting in huge lots in China. Some are approaching 5 years old and now obsolete - not to mention the fact that the batteries are probably completely rooted from sitting for so long. Nobody wants them.
Massive Communist Party subsidised factories producing EVs that few Chinese can afford or want.
For those companies that went 'all in' on EVs a few years ago - it must be a tough gig!
Tesla may survive in the US, if tariffs are applied, but there's going to be millions of cheap EVs dumped into European and Asian markets soon.
Massive Communist Party subsidised factories producing EVs that few Chinese can afford or want.
For those companies that went 'all in' on EVs a few years ago - it must be a tough gig!
Tesla may survive in the US, if tariffs are applied, but there's going to be millions of cheap EVs dumped into European and Asian markets soon.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Indeed they do vary, or at the very least, the data we have been able to collect varies.
The point of my post was to bring attention to the errors, especially since @Hedges is typically very good with data.
The chart I referenced from his post shows "Today" at a glacial minimum, and shows the interglacial periods longer than the glacial periods, something the data does not support, actually the opposite. As far as I know, the ice core data is about 400,000 years and indicates 4 glacial periods. Some of the posted data shows hundreds of millions of years.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Not a tough gig for those that produce EVs that are selling. In China today, 25% of new car sales are EVs even though it is a lottery system skewed toward EVs, they are selling well. . Oddly despite the authoritarian government there is a robust system of capitalism with this odd governent influence that is driving peoples choices. In China, power is cheap and people have been driving electric scooters and even three wheeler carts to bring produce into the cities from the farms so people are used to plugging in overnight to charge their vehicle.
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green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
Gas prices really have not changed too much over the last hundred years or so when adjusted for inflation.
https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-...__trashed/average-gas-prices-through-history/
Are they real sales or book cooked sales?
Sorry I just cannot trust any official numbers from China.
MTM98290
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2022
- Messages
- 312
Yes I agree 100% ban lobbyists.
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