I want to start with a big thanks to
@svetz ,
@Hedges ,
@Solar Guppy ,
@ncsolarelectric , really appreciate you guys helping me here.
It took me a while to reply as I was digesting all the good info you guys shared.
I'm going to share the info I find here so it can be used for others in the future. This project is in Deerfield Beach, FL, but might be very similar to others.
So far I'm planning for n
o battery backup. Since FPL provides annual Net Metering and the goal is to have a (near) zero electric bill. So Enphase
IQ7Plus seems to reasonable given it's
price is much
lower.
The cost of IQ8 plus with the extra equipment it requires for battery connection goes beyond the cost of a small generator or an offline battery bank to keep a refrigerator going during an extended outage. Based on history I expect that an extended outage (more than 36 hours) will occur every 15 years , so I could just buy a generator and leave it on the original box until such event happens and use the rest of the money to rent an airbnb far away for 1 week if I sense power will take a while to be restored.
By looking at this
panphlet and Youtube channel
videos Looks like the county (Broward) had a Solar program where all permits could be done online and they had permit template samples, however looks like the system has been deactivated. I'm trying to find a 10KW enphase design package that I could use.
I Found a city permit
checklist. So it looks like I need to get a set of plans signed and sealed by a Designer with an uppercase D.
Special Inspector forms for tie downs, not sure what this is yet.
Product approvals (NOAs) I guess are UL certification of the equipment I will use.
The other items seem to be standard city paperwork. I'm going to try to have no GA and hire the roof and electrical contractors directly, hope I can find reasonable prices.
Initial cost , vs warranty
FPL anual net metering
possible electrical car in the future and more panels (modularity of enphase)
fear of hoymiles not surviving 20 years.
30 panels at around 10KW does not seem excessive giving the current usage of 1100KW/month and the goal to have a bill with only minimal connection.
FPL requires a 1 Million dollar liability insurance policy (
~$14/month) if I go over 10Kw. However they calculate the AC output based on 0.85 of the DC output. So IQ7Pls nominal output is 210W that would be 6.3KW under the 10Kw for 30 panels. Or 390W Panels * 30 * 0.85 = 9945Watts. Right at the edge mark.
Questions:
Enphase - Are you guys stating that I cannot use the Enphase Cloud if I don't take a course or get a person who took the course to certify my install ?
If I can still use the local network to query the equipment API/REST I'm fine with that. As long as the system will operate normally I can use a raspberry pi or similar to query the APIs and build my own energy dashboards, I saw someone doing something similar here. Honestly I'm not a fan of having my system directly connected to their cloud anyway.
FPL states: System should not exceed 90% of distribution service rating. I'm guessing 90% of my 150A breaker. So 120V * 150A * .90 = 16200Watts max, it's less than my expected 9945Watts output
Florida FPL Limitations:
Requires liability insurance if over 10KW output based on DC output X 0.85 around extra $14/month.
Tier1 max 10Kw.
I'm going to calculate the cost/return. If I can get 50% of another panel with an IQ7+ for the cost of the IQ8+ upgrade I will just go with IQ7+ from what I see the clipping will occur at peak sun and I can still benefit from
I added that on my list to check. The cost seems to be reasonable however standard warranty is 10 years while Enphase is 25 years.
From what I read, MPPTs systems have capacitors that according to the manufacturer datasheet would not survive over over 10 years of use in a high temperature environment. So 25 years warranty is a big commitment. Manufacturers usually don't offer such a long warranty if they don't trust their system will survive the warranty period.
Hope that helps. I'll ask the moderators to move your other post to this thread where it'll be more on-topic.
Thank you.
Without certification, you can't activate the IQ8 inverters
Does that means they are just bricks or would still operate without talking to their cloud ?
Charles, you can find their classes online
I hope I can just find someone certified to activate them if its a requirement. I will still have to get an electrician and plans approved. Worst cast I hope I can use that to show them the system is legit.
Not being paranoid, but Hoymiles seems to be a chinese firm. China is a non-nato country. This devices are usually calling home over the internet. Therefore in case of a conflict I might expect my power to go down at Chinese government decision. Further the price does not justify as AP systems and Enphase prices are equivalent. Yes , iPhones are built in China I know there are great stuff comming from there, but I'm skeptic given I didn't see a real advantage to compensate the risk here.
Thank you. I will look into IronRidge products and check on SolarDesignTool and Green Lancer for permitting. It looks like it would be the easiest and most affordable way. That is very valuable info.
Enphase is top-of-the-line equipment and has a price tag to match, so compared to cheap inverters you're correct. But, there are cheap microinverters too, and they still confer a lot of advantages.
At less than $0.5 per watt (nominal output) and warranty of at least 10 years ?
30 x 390 watt panels and 30 iQ7+ inverters is a lot of power. What is your main panel and your main breaker size? With that much solar, you are looking at a 45 or 50 amp back feed breaker. If you have a 200 amps panel, that would mean going to a 190 amp or smaller main breaker to stay within the 120% rule.
Breaker outside is 150Amps
Fortunately, the governor (a republican) vetoed it.
I guess he might be running for president , I will add this to my list for next election voting decision.
For everyone going, but oh...the reason CA amended its net metering was because it wasn't fair for DERs to get a free ride on line maintenance. Fear not, Florida utilities have split the bill up and we pay for that, the net-metering 1-to-1 is only on the Energy portion as I understand it. Even if I have a net zero for the month, I'm still paying around $60 in the myriad of non-energy charges.
Is that FPL ? Did you received any credit yet ? I'm wondering if your annual surplus credit could cover the $60 monthly.
The cost for the equipment sounds ok, but for that price on the iQ7+ inverters, will they even swap out a bad one, or is that at your own risk, no warranty at all? For the panels I want to add onto my system, I found an Ebay seller with the iQ7 (non plus) for just $50 each, but they were listed "As Is, for parts" which makes me a bit nervous about buying them. I only need like 6 of them, and the case of 10 was $500. What are the odds that 6 of them work? The skeptic in me thinks they are all the ones pulled and replaced due to failure. I would hope the ones for $140 have a better shot at working. You can find some cheaper solar panels, but $0.66 per watt is not bad.
It's ebay, so I'm expecting to exchanges. In my viewpoint this things will either burn on the first month or operate fine for their expected lifetime of warranty + 1 month.
@svetz @GXMnow do you guys have over 5%/day clipping on your install ? (Reference:
@GXMnow is on 300W/IQ7.
@svetz is on 340W/IQ7+)
@Hedges for the moment I will not consider batteries. If I get a Cybertruck or an Electric F150 I heard they could provide me emergency backup, so I will wait for that. Worst case I would have to turn off the utility breaker and solar output to use the vehicle battery.
Once I gather more details I will organize a post with the steps or shorter version of this topic.