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New Daly "Smart" BMS w/ Communication. (80-250A)

FilterGuy said:
I have not seen it documented anywhere. We could ask for it from Daly......but I would not hold my breath.
Click to expand...
I just sent them a question about the protocol format.... We will see if 1) they understand my question, 2) are willing to provide the documentation, and 3) if it is in English.

Like I said, it is a bit of a long shot that we will get anything useful.
 
FilterGuy said:
I just sent them a question about the protocol format.... We will see if 1) they understand my question, 2) are willing to provide the documentation, and 3) if it is in English.

Like I said, it is a bit of a long shot that we will get anything useful.
Click to expand...
Lol

Yesterday I asked them the same :)

For the UART and RS485, they appear to be "bidirectional", as it can receive the information from the BMS and program it.
(Not bidirectional at the same time, send or receive)

Bluetooth now is not bidirectional, only receive.

As they are bidirectional, you will be "polling", or better, telling that you want to receive, after this, the BMS spits out it's information.

For changing settings you are telling the BMS you are going to send.

Not sure if bidirectional is the correct word. Older UART standards can only send or receive. Newer developments made the "informing" possible, changing the state of the communication to either send or receive.

With CAN, it can do both at the same time and at much higher speeds.

Then again, how much information are we talking about here?
How many bits and bytes?
Not alot.
Waiting always feels long :)

I'm ordering the 400A model.
With CAN, Bluetooth, temperature sensor and the "SOC key-light" (20/40/60/80% SOC)
I am not planning to order the $45 CAN to USB, and asked them to program the CAN protocol used by my MPPT.

I might buy cheap one from AliExpress
For $ 11,-
a.aliexpress.com

13.0US $ 35% OFF|Usb-can Debugger Adapter Usb To Can Can Bus Analyzer - Sensors - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
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But don't feel the need yet to change any settings.
Daly with many years of experience know that they are doing.
SOC I try to manage via the MPPT chargers.
 
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I asked "smart BMS store" to program the CAN bus settings for me.

As I don't like to spend money on something that I use only one time.
(The USB to CAN bus)
They are asking $450,- to do this!
Absurd.

If we can assume that they follow the CAN bus protocol standards, and say it is programmable (settings can be changed) it's 20 minutes work, copy-paste to fill in the field with the requested value, hit "send" and finished.

It they make their own version of CAN bus communication, and their software needed to change the settings only accesses some of the fields..
Their whole "programming" is just bulls!t

I hope they where just joking.
And that the standard made so many years ago is now not new "Daly standard"

We will see.

Really qurious about their protocol settings!!
And what can or can't be set / programmed.

The pictures in the manual of programming is really limited

Even the nice translation of @FilterGuy shows limited number of fields.

My MPPT uses about 75 different.
(CAN ID / CAN byte / CAN byte-bit)

Setting like
- battery high voltage arrive
- battery high voltage leave
- battery high temperature arrive
- battery high temperature leave

And naturally,
- SOC
- battery voltage
- battery Temperature
- battery current

Etc.

Some are reserved, still leaves 60 fields to be set / read
 
fhorst said:
I asked "smart BMS store" to program the CAN bus settings for me.

As I don't like to spend money on something that I use only one time.
(The USB to CAN bus)
They are asking $450,- to do this!
Absurd.

If we can assume that they follow the CAN bus protocol standards, and say it is programmable (settings can be changed) it's 20 minutes work, copy-paste to fill in the field with the requested value, hit "send" and finished.

It they make their own version of CAN bus communication, and their software needed to change the settings only accesses some of the fields..
Their whole "programming" is just bulls!t

I hope they where just joking.
And that the standard made so many years ago is now not new "Daly standard"

We will see.

Really qurious about their protocol settings!!
And what can or can't be set / programmed.

The pictures in the manual of programming is really limited

Even the nice translation of @FilterGuy shows limited number of fields.

My MPPT uses about 75 different.
(CAN ID / CAN byte / CAN byte-bit)

Setting like
- battery high voltage arrive
- battery high voltage leave
- battery high temperature arrive
- battery high temperature leave

And naturally,
- SOC
- battery voltage
- battery Temperature
- battery current

Etc.

Some are reserved, still leaves 60 fields to be set / read
Click to expand...
To tell the truth, I am not surprised. Their price says they don't really want to do it. They don't see much up-side for it.
Also, don't assume Firmware in the BMS is written in a flexible way..... I would not bet on that. It might actually be pretty hard coded.

This is an age old problem..... even if two devices share the hardware and level 2 protocols, the vendors often diverge in the higher levels of the protocol stack. I have done some programming for industrial controls, and it is the rare exception that devices from two different vendors can 'just work' together even though they have a common interface. Can bus, Mod bus, Ethernet or smoke signals, you almost always have to have some kind of processor between the two devices to translate. The exception to this is if a manufacture is trying to break into a business that is dominated by another company.... they will then sometimes offer a setting that tells their device to talk the language of the other company.

Now that I have essentially said there is no hope..... let me offer a very dim ray of hope. The the RV Industry Association (RVIA) has a specification called RV-C. RV-C is a CAN-based communication profile for recreation vehicles." @mapguy525 posted it as a resource here:
https://diysolarforum.com/resources/rv-industry-association-rv-c-network-information.46/
I have not studied the spec but skimming through it, I see a lot of what we would need.... but I don't know if it is everything we would need. I also don't know how widely adopted it is. (I had never heard of it before I saw @mapguy525 's resource post.)
 
FilterGuy said:
Now that I have essentially said there is no hope..... let me offer a very dim ray of hope. The the RV Industry Association (RVIA) has a specification called RV-C. RV-C is a CAN-based communication profile for recreation vehicles." @mapguy525 posted it as a resource here:
https://diysolarforum.com/resources/rv-industry-association-rv-c-network-information.46/
I have not studied the spec but skimming through it, I see a lot of what we would need.... but I don't know if it is everything we would need. I also don't know how widely adopted it is. (I had never heard of it before I saw @mapguy525 's resource post.)
Click to expand...

Can't speak to the acceptance of RV-C, but I know there are separate CAN based communications standards for heavy equipment and vehicles (J1939) and the marine industry (NMEA2000). NMEA2000 is somewhat based on J1939 I think. Not sure how interoperable these standards are with eachother, with RV-C, or with other standards. Not sure if these other CAN based standards strengthen the likelihood that there will be wide acceptance of RV-C or if they are not interoperable and will detract from acceptance. TBH I'm in way out of my depth talking about any of this. Most of my info comes from the Victron Whitepaper on communications and a little wikipedia'ing
 
276 pages ...
Loads to read, but the start already tells it...

Own interpretation of CAN. :)

All preaching for own church..

Does anyone know of remapping device??

I'm quite positive that the information requested my my MPPT and the information provided by the BMS are mostly the same, but not in same location.

If the position in the protocol is used for current for the BMS and for voltage on the MPPT, a simple remapping of the information would be enough.

With so many own interpretations, I hope someone else have thought about it,and made simple programmable "translator" from one device to the other.

Not sure how to Google for it.
 
Dzl said:
Can't speak to the acceptance of RV-C, but I know there are separate CAN based communications standards for heavy equipment and vehicles (J1939) and the marine industry (NMEA2000). NMEA2000 is somewhat based on J1939 I think. Not sure how interoperable these standards are with eachother, with RV-C, or with other standards. Not sure if these other CAN based standards strengthen the likelihood that there will be wide acceptance of RV-C or if they are not interoperable and will detract from acceptance. TBH I'm in way out of my depth talking about any of this. Most of my info comes from the Victron Whitepaper on communications and a little wikipedia'ing
Click to expand...
The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!! ;)
 
FilterGuy said:
The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!! ;)
Click to expand...
Especially the -sub standards :)
And the subs of subs...

Lol.

Seriously, does anyone know a device that puts the right information on the right location?

Remapping, translation, conversion, what ever you like to call it, as long as it works.

Making 2 can bus devices understand each other
 
fhorst said:
Seriously, does anyone know a device that puts the right information on the right location?

Remapping, translation, conversion, what ever you like to call it, as long as it works.

Making 2 can bus devices understand each other
Click to expand...

That is going to be a very specialized device, but is would not take much. A very small processor with a CAN interface will do it. The issue is the SW.
If you used one of the popular small processors you can probably find open source libraries for the CAN interface so it would be 'Just' some simple translation/mapping.... but someone would have to write it. (Of course, you would have to have the documentation of the protocols used for the devices)
 
Has any one confirmed that this has low temp disconnect ? I am in need of a BMS for my build and trying to decide between this and the Dykd smart 4s 120 BMS as will has posted on his website
 
I don't know if anyone has received one and tested it. (Mine is on order from AliExpress) However, if you look at post # 84 of this thread you can see that the configuration has a low-temp setting.... so it is promising.
 
Probably Arduino will work just fine.
2 can bus connection and translate / convert / map the fields.

Naturally, I already have the protocol information for the MPPT, and I'm positive minded that @FilterGuy or I will receive the protocol from Daly or the seller.

Price difference between the 250 and 400A is about 75 USD.

The 250 with options would costs 153 + 9.90 = 162.90
The 400A maximal 239.

Yes, 75 euro is a lot extra.
The ANT BMS is about this price!!

I thought about reselling my current 250A, and just use one 400A.

If they don't lower the "list price" I might just choose for the 250, and use both.

Even the 80A would do the trick as I'm mostly interested in the information coming from the cells, not the management.

To overcome the limitation from the first 250A, max 125A Charging, the 150A unit will be enough. $105.90

That's a huge price difference, 240 or 115.

Choices... Choices..

I like to have just one that does it all for me, for reasonable price.

$125,- extra and still the need to program my own...
That is not going to happen!
 
Following up on my post from yesterday regarding the 16S battery monitor screen: I contacted Daly and they provided me with a color LCD screen that plugs into the UART port. The LCD screen is for display only, it can NOT program the BMS. If I need to program the BMS, they also included a UART converter for PC connection and the software. To connect the PC, I need to first unplug the LCD Screen from the BMS's UART port and then plug the UART-PC converter into that port and connect it to a PC that is running the Daly programming software.

This is the BMS that I ordered: LiFePO4 16S 48V250A Common port with Balance+UART+3.0 color display. Product No. DL-R32W-F16S0250ATJ-MM07.

Below is a screenshot of my Spec Confirmation sheet.
 

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Nice!!

What did you pay for it??

(Specified in BMS, display, UART cable, temp?, Bluetooth?)

The LCD would replace the need of "key light" that would only show the SOC, what's available on their shop
 
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$112.50 for the Li-ion,12S,100A Separate Port with UART+LCD communication with convertors
$195.00 for the LiFePo4,16S,250A Common Port with UART+LCD communication with convertors
$50 for shipping
No Bluetooth.
 
Thanks for the fast reply.

Normal the smart 250A UART = 146.50
The UART cable = 3.26
195-145.50, +3.26 = 45.24 for the LCD?

Correct?
 
Today I received news from both MPPT factory, and the smart BMS seller Ruby

Apparently my MPPT doesn't do anything with the information provided by the BMS, except display it.
Bummer.

From Ruby: they are willing to program for free!!!

If the only real use is just to display at my MPPT....
It's not worth the trouble, at all.

I really like the display solution they provide to @blsousa
 
@fhorst what company are you communicating with about the smart BMS? I tried asking the allibaba Daly store and they totally misunderstood the question. The 'Ruby' you are talking to seems more conversant in English.
 
I sent Ruby a request for the protocol info for UART communications. She asked for my email and said she would send it..... I'll post whatever I get.
 
I am / was communicating with Ruby and Joyce (WeChat from Daly site)

The both promise to provide the CAN bus protocol...
Up to now, nothing.

The original Daly store is little bit cheaper so I'm going to buy there.

It will be the 150A to work in parallel with the 250A.
Together with the display who is now also standard available in the store of Ruby.

Not sure yet for the setup, as tomorrow I'm ordering 32*120A cells Extra.
It can be a good idea to make 2 packs.
Each with own BMS, one 456Ah and one 240Ah, and place them in parallel.
 
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