New NEC code makes it impossible for DIY systems to be compliant

[cs1234]

There is no form of energy stupidity that even comes close to the ethanol in the gasoline scam.

U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline ...​

https://www.reuters.com › business › environment › us-co...

Feb 14, 2022 — Department of Energy, found that ethanol is likely at least 24% more carbon-intensive than gasoline due to emissions resulting from land use ...

If you give corn farmers subsidies, they have to spend the money on something, may as well lobby for ethanol, to get more subsidies, to do more lobbying, etc..

 

[SupraSPL]

Plus a billlion small engines sitting around needing carbs done due to ethanol gas. There is no problem government cant make worse.

 

[32 volt boater]

If you give corn farmers subsidies, they have to spend the money on something, may as well lobby for ethanol, to get more subsidies, to do more lobbying, etc..

I don't even know how they can lobby for something so stupid.

Its not a debate, corn ethanol is a destructive waste of time.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Energy-balance-of-ethanol-production-from-1-bushel-of-corn-All-energy-components-are_fig1_225536333

How do you make the argument for it in the lobby ?

 

[cs1234]

Don't get me wrong, I love corn. I'm composed almost entirely of it!

 

[cs1234]

I don't even know how they can lobby for something so stupid.

Did you not grow up here? How can you not understand?

 

[32 volt boater]

I know its bribes.

 

[32 volt boater]

Don't get me wrong, I love corn. I'm composed almost entirely of it!

"Todd Dawson, a plant biologist at the University of California-Berkeley, can test a strand of hair to determine how much corn is in your diet or mine by looking for a form of carbon found in corn."

A particular isotope or molecule? Thats interesting.

 

[32 volt boater]

"Hibbeln's research suggests diets containing omega-3 fatty acids found in fish reduce depression, aggression and anger, while improving mental well-being."

Wile most people give credit to the 1990s aggressive policing for a drop in crime,

That had nothing to do with it.

The “lead-crime hypothesis” holds that childhood exposure to toxic lead is a major driver of criminal behavior in adulthood.

Lead and Crime: A Review of the Evidence and the Path Forward

Several careful, well-designed studies conclude that lead exposure affects crime rates, but there is also a continuing debate regarding exactly how strong the relationship is.

www.manhattan-institute.org

 

[cs1234]

"Hibbeln's research suggests diets containing omega-3 fatty acids found in fish reduce depression, aggression and anger, while improving mental well-being."

People from fish eating island nations do seem pretty laid back compared to us cow and pig eating nations. Doesn't prove anything, but makes me wonder.

 

[cs1234]

"Todd Dawson, a plant biologist at the University of California-Berkeley, can test a strand of hair to determine how much corn is in your diet or mine by looking for a form of carbon found in corn."

A particular isotope or molecule? Thats interesting.

Yeah, I remembered reading an article about way back in the day. I knew it would come in handy eventually.

 

[Goboatingnow]

How would the appliance know what rate you find acceptable? As electricity prices change back and forth, would you have to reprogram them all to new values? Or would we use a category instead of a number, say only allow three electricity prices.. high, higher and highest.

This all seems like a bunch of work to me compared to using some solar panels and batteries.

I just want electricity so I have cold food and a house that isn't 100+ degrees, not a commodity I have to speculate on all day.

The point is to first automate ToU selection you have to have an industry agreed protocol to relay the pricing to the appliance , after that it’s up to the interface on the appliance to offer price selection strategies , alternatively the appliance offers integration home automation systems like HomeAssitant and the price logic is done there and electrical consumers are controlled centrally by a HA computer.

But we’re a million miles from that as no agreed protocol exists to relay ToU pricing automatically

 

[cs1234]

The point is to first automate ToU selection you have to have an industry agreed protocol to relay the pricing to the appliance , after that it’s up to the interface on the appliance to offer price selection strategies , alternatively the appliance offers integration home automation systems like HomeAssitant and the price logic is done there and electrical consumers are controlled centrally by a HA computer.

But we’re a million miles from that as no agreed protocol exists to relay ToU pricing automatically

You really want to deal with an interface on every appliance to determine when it should run based on pricing? I would rather we all just ride bicycles and forget the electric cars if this is what the world is going to come down to.

 

[timselectric]

The grid will be long gone, way before any of this is implemented.
3 words
Micro personal generation.

 

[Hedges]

if a pricing signal would have been available the whole situation could have been far less severe.

The pricing signal was the regulatory agency screaming, "The market-based system isn't working! Raise the price to $9.99/kWh"
And the rest was history.

One of the energy companies contacted customers begging them to leave, find a different power company they would be able to afford. But many were not able to do so.

Poverty is a choice? Yeah.. NOT.

There are plenty of people who earn decent income but by choice are essentially in poverty. They spend all they earn and a bit more.
Of course, they have good examples to follow ... in Congress.

Our country provide health care, food stamps, subsidized or free housing. "Poverty" is if you can't afford the basic things of life. If it is given to you, technically you aren't in poverty. But many people don't try to work and climb up higher.

I DID NOT GET TO CHOOSE THEM.

True. "The secret to success is to choose your parents wisely."
Our government has chosen to promote multi-generational single-parent families.

The opportunity for education is there, is even pushed down our throats. On the college track, with the trades removed from schools.
But many people deliberate choose not to be educated. When I was growing up, someone observed that school busses full of children could learn lyrics by heart, but wouldn't learn what was in the curiculum.

 

[...]

But many people deliberate choose not to be educated. When I was growing up, someone observed that school busses full of children could learn lyrics by heart, but wouldn't learn what was in the curiculum.

Girls just wanna have fun

 

[Goboatingnow]

You really want to deal with an interface on every appliance to determine when it should run based on pricing? I would rather we all just ride bicycles and forget the electric cars if this is what the world is going to come down to.

Given the huge disparity in ToU , I see no issue with programming appliances. I already set timers on washing machines and dishwashers to move them into my night rate. It’s not much more to programme them to seek low tariff opportunities.

 

[eXodus]

We need some sort of an omnipresent alarm/alert with electric prices so we are aware of them at all time. Then we need to be able to set custom profiles so only certain groups of items run at certain price thresholds. I'll run my fridge, but not my water heater at this price, and my ac only at this price, except at this time of day, unless it reaches an internal temperature of this, then I pay any price!

those are great ideas - I was proposing automation of power pricing earlier this thread.

Given the huge disparity in ToU , I see no issue with programming appliances. I already set timers on washing machines and dishwashers to move them into my night rate. It’s not much more to programme them to seek low tariff opportunities.

correct, just have a few templates on every device. - to set priorities. Many devices are optional in high price times or emergencies (water heaters, stove) - others can be reduced - A/C and room heaters. And things like fridge and freezer - can be time deferred, if they know their daily cycles - a good insulated fridge only needs to run ever 3-4 hours - it can precool deeper and just do nothing during peak times of price.

Much of those can be fully automated. You set a price you are willing to pay - and it the appliances only runs only during those times. Further you can set timers - where you absolutely need it available - for a morning shower eg.

 

[Hedges]

Forgive me , I will not debate “ poor is a lifestyle choice “ with a person claiming in excess of 100,000 income. You clearly have no concept of poor or the difficulties people get into from low Incomes or no incomes.

All that tells you is that I may be "low income", but I'm not "very low income."

Area Median Income & Eligibility for Affordable Housing - SV@Home

The area median income (AMI) in Santa Clara County in 2023 is $181,300, an increase of $12,800 since last year and $30,000 since 2021. This is driving up rents and creating more pressure on low-income earning tenants who qualify for affordable housing. The table below shows affordable rents at...

siliconvalleyathome.org

"The area median income (AMI) in Santa Clara County in 2022 is $168,500"
"Very low income is 30 to 50% of AMI" (up to $84,250)
"Low income is 50 to 80% of AMI" (up to $134,800)

I would guess my sister is in the "very low income" category.
She works for Stanford and owns a house.
She too lives within her budget.

Others have grown up in a culture of under performing or can’t get reasonable paying jobs. You can’t live serving coffee to rich people like you.

I think you just hit the nail on the head.

I'll bet some of my classmates in Skyline High School (Oakland) made choices that left them further down the income scale. Even though some were bussed from the poor side of town, offered the best education available in the city.

Serve coffee? Rich people like me? I just showed that I'm maybe "low income."
I occasionally have coffee out. Normally make it myself. I'll bet you poor people spend more money eating out than I do.

Years ago, my boss told me about this book. He said he was going to wait until it came out in paperback.

The Millionaire Next Door - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You don't know the path I took. I agree I didn't get here in a vacuum. I had two parents. My mom was a school teacher, supported the family. Both were frugal; maybe that's the biggest thing they gave me. I lived at home going to school. worked a minimum wage job, part time. My first home was a mobile home, rented out the second bedroom. Most prospective roommates turned around when they saw that, weren't willing to live in a mobile home. Bought a house, rented it out and lived in the garage. I've paid my dues.

Eventually bought the house I now live in. I'm still frugal, but I've enjoyed occasional extravagances. My boss's boss (at the time) also lived modestly considering his situation. He drove a Lexus. But he also made at least one extravagant purchase: He bought the Golden State Warriors. And so he hosts games my former classmates attend.

 

[32 volt boater]

There are plenty of people who earn decent income but by choice are essentially in poverty.

The scratch off lottery ticket people. Its sad. No one ever wins that in the long run ever but they try and try. I almost never see anyone come in the store and collect on a winner but the trash bin outside is always full of those things. On a rare occasion they win they buy more and lose.

 

[Ampster]

I've seen articles on the internet that claim that each web page view takes as much electricity to reach your eyeballs as a nuclear submarine uses to go to the bottom and back up again.

That is good to know that the biggest threat to the grid is the Internet, NOT EVs.