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RESOLVED: EG4 6500EX and 6000EX Lights Flickering FIRMWARE

You need to learn what aliasing is.

If I turn up the ms per div I can get the "perfect sine" as the processed signal has data points dropped. Using 2 channels cuts sample rate in half because half the time the scope is sampling the other channel. I learned all of that over 20 years ago.

Crank it down to 2ms per div and only use one channel with 1Gs/s (which is my scope, twice your sample rate of 500MSa/s) and get back to me. I'd like to see it. Then get a light strobing and lets see what you get at that same 2ms and only one channel, 1Gs/s.

And yes, I used true ground in all my scope captures.
In case anyone is wondering what I'm referring to above, I'll explain.

First, the scope he is using is sampling at 1/2 half the rate of the scope I used. 500MSa/s is one half the rate of 1Gs/s. It refers to the sample rate per second. The higher the sample rate, the more data points collected like shown in the video.

Second, using 2 channels halves the sample rate again, so the data points Markus collected are 1/4 the data points I capture using a single channel with a scope with twice the sample rate.

Third, all data points are processed data before displayed on a DSO screen. Outliers can be discarded. The DSO will show a "smoothed" waveform on the screen. One must always be aware this is processed data.

Fourth, using longer time sweeps can lead to aliasing as the data points need to be displayed on a fixed number of pixels on the screen. For this reason, I prefer to use a short sweep time and capture a movie, then zoom out to show a longer time frame if I want to see that. However, the problem of displaying a high number of data points on a fixed number of pixels on a screen can leave out data points due to processing when zooming out so it must be remembered to look at the original time sweep.
 
So, trying to follow along here, am I to understand that with the latest firmware but still strobing lights I have no choice but to RMA the units and replace them? or is this another troubleshooting step?
 
So, trying to follow along here, am I to understand that with the latest firmware but still strobing lights I have no choice but to RMA the units and replace them? or is this another troubleshooting step?
Here is how my problem went. I ensured I could find nothing wrong with my whole house electrical system. Nothing found so I had to remove the bonding screw and update to the latest firmware. Light strobed worse. I had already started a ticket for support and it will get passed up to technical support. They will ask if you have the latest firmware and only one N-G bond. If so, they will have a list of information needed. Here is the list:


-Solar panel configuration (xSxP)
-Approx Install date
-List of settings

Take pictures of:
Wide shot of overall system installation
Main Panel
Sub panels
How AC input is connected to inverter (if available)
How AC output is connected to the inverter
How PV is connected at the inverter, this includes the panel configuration. How many in series and how many in parallel?
How Batteries are connected to inverter
Inverter screen
Label of inverter clearly showing Serial Number and Model Number
Battery DC readings on both ends
AC output readings
AC input readings (if available)
If you are having a warning or fault code, please send a short recording of this happening.

You need to submit all of this information or they won't process the RMA. I took photos of the voltage readings with the multimeter leads in the background showing how the leads were hooked up and to which terminals. I supplied my complete wiring diagram. I already had my system settings in a Word document so just converted it to a pdf file. If you have things like the wiring diagram and settings in your records, it doesn't take long to collect the rest.

Once that is done, then you move to a resolution specialist that will process the RMA. You get an email for the RMA approval.
 
Ultimately wanted to get you two units that would have the newest FW and best version of the hardware. Sending one unit did not make much sense towards actually solving the issues you were having. Don't want to see you continue to waste your time.

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Here is how my problem went.
Stepped into solar thing last Spring 2022 but had issues getting the project started (20 panel and 2 EX6500). I’ll start after the error 61 was resolved. The initial response times via email and phone with SigSolar techs was good. We did all the troubleshooting tests, FW updates and multimeter videos throughout to get to the RMA process.

12/21/22: Contacted SigSolar for issues (listed below this timeline) and given the standard request for data and information.

1/4/23: Waited until after holidays to send data to tech.

2/6/23: Went through several weeks of requesting ticket status, none given.

2/13/23: Passed to another tech, installed latest FW update, informed tech it did not resolve anything.

2/17/23: After trying several things and tired of waiting for another FW update, I requested RMA and was passed to Resolution Dept.

2/23/23: Was told I had to ship old inverters before new inverters would be shipped. If I wanted to keep my system operating, I would have to purchase two more units which could be installed when I took down the old units to return. So, I did.

3/2/23: On the day when the first set of new inverters were to arrive, I prep'd by taking down the old inverters. I had assumed Sigsolar would ensure new inverters were sent; however, I was inadvertently sent what they called Garage Sale units. They looked used around mounting holes, other scratches, something metal rattling around inside one. Two more were sent.

3/10/23: Second set of inverters arrived. One inverter had something rattling around inside but didn’t sound metallic. The other was dented/scratched. A tech asked me to take the cover off the one that rattled. The plastic rivets had come out of the plastic cover over the internal components and the rivet holes in the cover were torn. Two more inverters were sent.

3/18/23: First inverter of third shipment arrived. FedEx had dropped something heavy on it. Components inside were broke loose and case was bowed.

3/20/23: Second inverter of third shipment arrived. Plastic rivets were inside the lower part of the inverter, I took apart the inverter and reinstalled them. Another inverter was shipped to replace the crushed inverter.

3/24/23: The fourth shipment arrived. This inverter also had a loose rivet but I didn’t replace it.

Things happen but I will say that the shipping process was not sped up to my satisfaction after the initial shipment failure and compensation for my inconvenience was given at token level rather than a level befitting such a series of unfortunate events. All inverters were tagged 10/2022.

ORIGINAL INVERTER ISSUES: (NOTES: I do not run inverters with Grid Power on – the breaker for AC input is always off. The inverters are in “USE”. The old inverters were tagged 05/2022. I did not change anything when removing the old inverters and installing the new inverters.)

1 Random Power Outages in EG4 but not in USE.

2 Error 61 in EG4 but not in USE, resolved in FW update.

3 Arcing noises from main panel when AC input to inverters is turned on.

4 One inverter drops the date and time when turned off for several hours. New FW fixed this.

5 MPPT voltages significantly change when being placed from standby to on and from on to standby.

6 PV voltage hangs at 90V unless PV breaker turn off and on.

7 AC output voltage fluctuations:

7a Inverter’s display report incorrect fluctuating voltages (117-122V) while PV charging battery but actual voltage is 119.9-120.2V using voltmeter.

7b Inverter’s display report incorrect fluctuating voltages (115-137V) after PV charging has reached 100% SOC but actual voltage is 120.6-121.9V using voltmeter.

8 Flickering lights:

8a Flickers while PV is charging battery. The microwave light strobes after SOC reaches 100%.

8b During hours of darkness some lights randomly flicker, haven’t found a cause.

8c Lights on dimmers flicker unless turned up 100%.

8d Some lights flash when well pump or boiler pump turn on.

AFTER RMA: The main issues #3, #7 and #8a were resolved with the new inverters; #6 was resolved with later FW update. I have not checked #5. Issue #1, no idea staying in USE. (Using FW 79.67)

Flickering Lights: I haven’t spent time on this issue, because I really don’t care and can wait until someone else fingers it out. Closing your eyes makes it stop.

Lights on dimmers flicker unless turned up 100%. Microwave light on low setting flickers but when on full it doesn’t. Some lights flash(dim) when well pump or boiler pump turn on.

Some observations since RMA:

1. Dessmonitor: It works but it SUCKS! The inverters post data points every 5 minutes and at different intervals for each inverter. The program does not combine data from multiple inverters. In order to determine power to and from battery, you must do the volt*amp math for each data point. Why does SigSolar require this data in its exported excel format, because.

2. I use Solar Assistant which can provide 10 second data points.

3. Switched from “USE” to “EG4” setting to try an EG4 hub. Terrible light flickering began and 2P2 started fluctuating voltage between 114-130V. I removed the EG4 hub, but the voltage fluctuation and light show was still happening, so I switched back to “USE” and voltage fluctuation and flickering stopped. Maybe my fault, I may try again when it is convenient. The hub did work as advertised.

4. The battery/load data reported by the inverters is not very accurate when compared to shunts or other monitoring devices. The reported SOC for EG4 LP4s somehow seems to be accurate.

5. The system works now, and I am satisfied with it but, knowing what I know now, if I could go back to March 2023, I would have taken the cash back and thrown another $2,500 at SigSolar for the EG4 18Kpv.

I would say everyone involved wanted to help and I did not have a problem (within reason) getting a hold of someone to help. Richard, Aaron, Daniel, Hannah, Ty, Travis, Royce, Jarrett (is that really your last name), Ben. The SigSolar reps on this forum did prove invaluable, I recommend engaging them when appropriate.
 
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Here is my reading with the o scope you need a true ground to connect to to get the proper reading not doubting your ability at all
I'm anxiously waiting for you to post up the waveform using the following criteria:

Crank it down to 2ms per div and only use one channel with 1Gs/s (which is my scope, twice your sample rate of 500MSa/s) and get back to me. I'd like to see it. Then get a light strobing and lets see what you get at that same 2ms and only one channel, 1Gs/s.

When you get the time please post it up so we can compare. I will continue to remind you in case you forget.
 
So I get you want data, but as an example my system does not strobe. It never has under any conditions. So, I'm not sure what you're asking to see really. Will him testing those inverters have anything to do with your situation?

I might have missed if those test units do show strobe. If it's somewhere in this thread I apologize that I missed it before posting this.
 
So I get you want data, but as an example my system does not strobe. It never has under any conditions. So, I'm not sure what you're asking to see really. Will him testing those inverters have anything to do with your situation?

I might have missed if those test units do show strobe. If it's somewhere in this thread I apologize that I missed it before posting this.
Zwy shows the strobe on his test equipment, SS questioned whether he was operating it correctly. Zwy is asking for more precise operation of SS's test equipment.....then maybe they will see where the strobing is coming from. Myself, I have given up on curing my strobing, I am just going to have to live with it. My desire to be independent from the grid overcomes the annoyance of strobing during times of high PV input.
 
So I get you want data, but as an example my system does not strobe. It never has under any conditions. So, I'm not sure what you're asking to see really. Will him testing those inverters have anything to do with your situation?

He posted up a photo of a sine wave. The problem is how the scope was setup, the data displayed may not show what is actually occurring due to the sampling rate, sweep and processing by the DSO. That means the data may not be considered factual. It is data, but is it processed data and data from a lower sampling rate.

If you do not understand why this is so, I refer you to this post.

I might have missed if those test units do show strobe. If it's somewhere in this thread I apologize that I missed it before posting this.

You are claiming they can't get the lights to flicker/strobe? https://diysolarforum.com/threads/signature-solar-lighting-demo-video-tech-details.55599/
 
Zwy shows the strobe on his test equipment, SS questioned whether he was operating it correctly. Zwy is asking for more precise operation of SS's test equipment.....then maybe they will see where the strobing is coming from. Myself, I have given up on curing my strobing, I am just going to have to live with it. My desire to be independent from the grid overcomes the annoyance of strobing during times of high PV input.
Very good post, I want to know why and I want comparison.

I will say my units do not strobe under PV. But have you seen this video with PV power and the resulting waveform?

 
strobing during times of high PV input.
My old 05/2022 inverters were doing this, the replacement inverters do not. Do yours also have something like these occurring?
8a Flickers while PV is charging battery. The microwave light strobes after SOC reaches 100%.
7a Inverter’s display report incorrect fluctuating voltages (117-122V) while PV charging battery but actual voltage is 119.9-120.2V using voltmeter.

7b Inverter’s display report incorrect fluctuating voltages (115-137V) after PV charging has reached 100% SOC but actual voltage is 120.6-121.9V using voltmeter.
 
He posted up a photo of a sine wave. The problem is how the scope was setup, the data displayed may not show what is actually occurring due to the sampling rate, sweep and processing by the DSO. That means the data may not be considered factual. It is data, but is it processed data and data from a lower sampling rate.

If you do not understand why this is so, I refer you to this post.



You are claiming they can't get the lights to flicker/strobe? https://diysolarforum.com/threads/signature-solar-lighting-demo-video-tech-details.55599/
I know they've recreated strobing. I wasn't sure if the strobing is inverter specific rather than situational specific as I've never seen it on my units. This would lead me to believe it is either being caused by a faulty unit or incorrect installation.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just supplying the data point that my units are running the original firmware and never strobe. So either there is a solution to prevent it, or my units are somehow different.
 
The latest two firmware updates (79.63, 79.66) have actually caused more issues than fixes.
  1. Light flicker/strobing/flashing is now much worse. Before, I would only notice if I dimmed my lights using the wall switch dimmer. Now, the disco strobing comes and goes at will. I do think it's one inverter since my upstairs lights remain steady and the downstairs rooms that have the issue run off the opposite inverter.
  2. I also now have the issue with inverter 2P1 randomly flashing "2P1" with no error.
  3. The inverters also periodically now reboot themselves; load level doesn't matter.
  4. When I checked the system the other morning with my cup of coffee in hand, the batteries were run down to 0% and all batteries were shutoff. The inverters were set to change back to pass-through mode when batteries hit 10%. No idea why this happened, other than FW issues.
  5. Today, 2P2 wouldn't go above 105 watts for charging the batteries when in USB mode. Normally, the PV input would max out on each inverter to charge the batteries since utility is being bypassed powering the loads. I reboot the inverter, no change. I then remembered SS support telling me "Sometimes the FW must be run more than once for all the settings to take place". HAHA, I told myself, I have worked in IT for over 22 years and never did rerunning the same FW update fix anything. But I ran it again, and guess what, fixed the PV battery charging issue.
To tell you the truth, these inverters are super buggy, and we are the beta testers. The only issue I had with the original firmware on the early 2022 inverters was error 61 (now fixed). As of today, I have settings that seem to change themselves, random reboots, random light strobing, and random flashing 2P1. From reading this forum, guess I am part of the "club of problems".

One interesting item I should mention as it pertains to the strobing lights. If I add some load to the circuit by turning on an oven cooktop burner the strobing stops. Turn the oven burner off, the strobing comes back.
I have similar issues with one of the inverters (master) rebooting, I upgraded to the 79.67 and the problem still persists. I have been in contact with signature solar, but as of today have not received any direction or suggestions on what needs to be done to correct this issue.
 
I have similar issues with one of the inverters (master) rebooting, I upgraded to the 79.67 and the problem still persists. I have been in contact with signature solar, but as of today have not received any direction or suggestions on what needs to be done to correct this issue.
What battery setting are you using? USE or EG4
 
Very good post, I want to know why and I want comparison.

I will say my units do not strobe under PV. But have you seen this video with PV power and the resulting waveform?

I had not, I have now. My voltage is all over the place when PV is strong. During battery power at night or when PV is weak or even on grid pass through, no flicker. It appears to be a regulation problem. I figure I will just live with it. I am usually working during the day anyway. At night when I need the lights, it does not flicker.
 
My old 05/2022 inverters were doing this, the replacement inverters do not. Do yours also have something like these occurring?
I have three, two purchased last November and one in January. The flicker is horrendous, but only during high PV input. I am usually out working my tail off during the day, so I am just living with it for now.
 
My old 05/2022 inverters were doing this, the replacement inverters do not. Do yours also have something like these occurring?
My inverters manufactured about the same time frame as yours were flickering lights with varying levels of PV input as well. That problem seemed to have gone away with later FW, one of the few problems fixed, with many more created!
 
I have three, two purchased last November and one in January. The flicker is horrendous, but only during high PV input. I am usually out working my tail off during the day, so I am just living with it for now.
Which version of FW are you running?
 
One observation as it pertains to FW revisions for the 6500EX. According to a post James made, the hardware inside the 6500EX inverter was changed at some point which led to what he called starving rectifiers. To solve this issue they changed the FW to provide more power to the starving rectifiers.
My question is this. Can the same FW that fixed issues with starving rectifiers also play nicely with the older units where the rectifiers were not starved? For example, I had a slight flickering light problem with the original FW, mainly when i dimmed my lights. Nothing major, and I could live with it. Once I changed to 79.63 all hell broke loose with my LEDs strobing and random reboots on top of that. I am no electrical engineer or a FW coder, but it appears creating one blanket FW to work with different HW revisions might not be the best approach. Thoughts?
 
One observation as it pertains to FW revisions for the 6500EX. According to a post James made, the hardware inside the 6500EX inverter was changed at some point which led to what he called starving rectifiers. To solve this issue they changed the FW to provide more power to the starving rectifiers.
My question is this. Can the same FW that fixed issues with starving rectifiers also play nicely with the older units where the rectifiers were not starved? For example, I had a slight flickering light problem with the original FW, mainly when i dimmed my lights. Nothing major, and I could live with it. Once I changed to 79.63 all hell broke loose with my LEDs strobing and random reboots on top of that. I am no electrical engineer or a FW coder, but it appears creating one blanket FW to work with different HW revisions might not be the best approach. Thoughts?
79.63 would have been the version that disabled the neutral/ground bond in the inverter.
 
One observation as it pertains to FW revisions for the 6500EX. According to a post James made, the hardware inside the 6500EX inverter was changed at some point which led to what he called starving rectifiers. To solve this issue they changed the FW to provide more power to the starving rectifiers.

That was here.
My question is this. Can the same FW that fixed issues with starving rectifiers also play nicely with the older units where the rectifiers were not starved? For example, I had a slight flickering light problem with the original FW, mainly when i dimmed my lights. Nothing major, and I could live with it. Once I changed to 79.63 all hell broke loose with my LEDs strobing and random reboots on top of that. I am no electrical engineer or a FW coder, but it appears creating one blanket FW to work with different HW revisions might not be the best approach. Thoughts?
Experienced the same, flicker seemed worse after bonding screw removal and updated firmware. I agree, it might be a case where hardware is not compatible with new firmware.
 
I have similar issues with one of the inverters (master) rebooting, I upgraded to the 79.67 and the problem still persists. I have been in contact with signature solar, but as of today have not received any direction or suggestions on what needs to be done to correct this issue.
SS solar responded and requested the firm ware version (79.67 & 61.12) and said
"Also, I am being told Solar Assistant has been causing some issues with our units as of late; I am getting more information on this, though. It was suggested that I ask you to use DESS Monitor for a bit and see if the issue continues."

Anyone have issues with Solar Assistant causing the EG4 6500ex to reboot or shutdown and restart?
 
"Also, I am being told Solar Assistant has been causing some issues with our units as of late; I am getting more information on this, though. It was suggested that I ask you to use DESS Monitor for a bit and see if the issue continues."

Anyone have issues with Solar Assistant causing the EG4 6500ex to reboot or shutdown and restart?
No issues using Solar Assistant. (I've only owned SA for 9 days.) Honesty if you use SA you are more likely to use battery type "USE", which will eliminate multiple nuisance glitches related to Battery communication issues. The issue that exist with my EG4 6500EX, existed long before buying SA.
 
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