Horsefly
Solar Wizard
Most politicians don't break the law until AFTER they are elected.
Sunfunkits show their true color
- Thread starter Bud Martin
- Start date
Trust (or lack or it) is one major reason I'm still on the fence on what kind of batteries to get. Watched a lot of Youtube battery tear down videos looking for something good. I appreciate Ray's videos and thought they were well done and informative. I was shocked to see Ray's last one and then the SFK guys video on Ray a few days later. Has it really come to this? Why does this seem to be so bad? Are there really "Grade A" and "Grade B" batteries? What is the real truth? Who can you trust? I have never even thought to question the quality of a SMA inverter, but a lithium battery?
Short story. Placed my first order on Aliexpress for a tractor throttle cable. $7 plus $5 shipping. Arrived a while later, works fine. No probelm. Started looking for solar stuff there also. Found an Aisikai 250amp transfer switch for $135 plus $40 or so shipping. Also got 2 Aisikai generator battery chargers. Result? Transfer switch arrived broken. Almost complete loss. Since it is a 3 phase switch, I can still use 2 or 3 of the 4 terminals that did not get damaged. There is no way it got damaged in shipping. It left the seller that way. Both of the battery chargers work, but they came scratched and were made 4 years ago - so old stock. They even had what looked like original Aisikai wrapping on them (but all that can be faked also). So what happened? I also contacted a factory in China that makes complete transfer switch boxes and asked them about the $135 price for the switch. They said that was less than they paid Aisikai for it. So I asked a friend to call Aisikai factory in China and ask them about it. Now I know. Aisikai auctions/sells items that are damaged, scratched, old, etc., for scrap. People buy these and sell them as new on Aliexpress rather than recycle/dispose of them. They are not supposed to do that, but Aisikai does not seem to check what the buyers do. That is how the Aliexpress sellers can offer such low prices on items and sell a $500 switch for $135. They probably paid a few dollars for it. Of course making a claim with Aliexpress was useless. I got $60 or so back. Credit card co was no help either. Will never buy there again. The same thing happened with wind speed/humidity meters I got there earlier. I have no good way to test the wind speed, but the humidity sensor was off by 50%. Again, Aliexpress seller sold an item as new that never met factory specs to begin with and that the factory also probably sold as scrap. It was new, but it did not work. My fault for wanting to spend $15 instead of $150 for the original Kestrel meter. Lesson learned. So what happens with lithium batteries? Probably the same kind of thing. Am I really ready to drop a huge amount of $ on Alibaba for batteries mentioned in a video somewhere? If the Aliexpress sellers were at least honest about what they were selling it would be a different matter. I think ray even mentioned something like that in one video. A few scratches I can accept for a lower price. An ATS switch with 1 of the 4 lugs broken can still be used because we only ever disconnect 2 hot wires anyway if the seller tells me about it. On the other hand, a fire anmeometer/hydrometer that does not not work is worse than useless - it can lead you to think that the fire danger is not as bad as it might be. I will wait and see what happens with batteries.
Short story. Placed my first order on Aliexpress for a tractor throttle cable. $7 plus $5 shipping. Arrived a while later, works fine. No probelm. Started looking for solar stuff there also. Found an Aisikai 250amp transfer switch for $135 plus $40 or so shipping. Also got 2 Aisikai generator battery chargers. Result? Transfer switch arrived broken. Almost complete loss. Since it is a 3 phase switch, I can still use 2 or 3 of the 4 terminals that did not get damaged. There is no way it got damaged in shipping. It left the seller that way. Both of the battery chargers work, but they came scratched and were made 4 years ago - so old stock. They even had what looked like original Aisikai wrapping on them (but all that can be faked also). So what happened? I also contacted a factory in China that makes complete transfer switch boxes and asked them about the $135 price for the switch. They said that was less than they paid Aisikai for it. So I asked a friend to call Aisikai factory in China and ask them about it. Now I know. Aisikai auctions/sells items that are damaged, scratched, old, etc., for scrap. People buy these and sell them as new on Aliexpress rather than recycle/dispose of them. They are not supposed to do that, but Aisikai does not seem to check what the buyers do. That is how the Aliexpress sellers can offer such low prices on items and sell a $500 switch for $135. They probably paid a few dollars for it. Of course making a claim with Aliexpress was useless. I got $60 or so back. Credit card co was no help either. Will never buy there again. The same thing happened with wind speed/humidity meters I got there earlier. I have no good way to test the wind speed, but the humidity sensor was off by 50%. Again, Aliexpress seller sold an item as new that never met factory specs to begin with and that the factory also probably sold as scrap. It was new, but it did not work. My fault for wanting to spend $15 instead of $150 for the original Kestrel meter. Lesson learned. So what happens with lithium batteries? Probably the same kind of thing. Am I really ready to drop a huge amount of $ on Alibaba for batteries mentioned in a video somewhere? If the Aliexpress sellers were at least honest about what they were selling it would be a different matter. I think ray even mentioned something like that in one video. A few scratches I can accept for a lower price. An ATS switch with 1 of the 4 lugs broken can still be used because we only ever disconnect 2 hot wires anyway if the seller tells me about it. On the other hand, a fire anmeometer/hydrometer that does not not work is worse than useless - it can lead you to think that the fire danger is not as bad as it might be. I will wait and see what happens with batteries.
Horsefly
Solar Wizard
- There should be lots more hesitation - in general - in buying off Aliexpress. Some things you should probably never buy off Aliexpress, and one of those (from what I've seen here) is LiFePO4 cells. NEVER. There are way too many sad stories of cells being used, bloated, under-spec, or never even delivered.
- This board is a great resource to find GOOD sources, either on Alibaba or separate store sites. Since you are on this thread: @RayfromTX has a YouTube channel where he specifically discusses some sources that have been good and some that have been not so good. Most of us would agree with his assessments.
- A "Short story" usually doesn't end up occupying most of the vertical space on my screen.
Some of us on this forum took a risk several years ago when we first bought these cells, before anyone on YT even knew about them. I did that because a) I was looking for something else besides Winston cells and b) If these cells worked, they would be able to get me the amount of storage I really wanted for this off-grid place of mine to be comfortable. I bought them from a now defunct Alibaba seller. No pictures, no idea of actual capacity, no bus bars included, no YT reviews, etc.
Even today, if you compare the capacity you can get by DIY-ing with these cells compared to anything else you can save 50% on the total cost. Three years ago, you saved even more. Now we're three years later, my cells are running without issues, powering a house 24/7 winter and summer - I barely check the BMS. I just added another 32 cells doubling my capacity to 56kWh. Even if all these cells pull only 250Ah of their rated 280Ah, that means 50kWh of storage. Add a few spare cells, you've got a fully serviceable battery at a cost well below anything else out there.
Is there a risk that these cells just stop working after next year? I highly doubt it. These cells don't get stressed in solar applications. I would never use them to build an EV, but solar? You're talking about 0.1 to 0.2C at most (with a 10kW array, 2/4 battery banks in parallel, 6kW max draw in summer). Calendar aging will get them eventually, but that goes for all cells in any product. What you do have nowadays are some known vendors that make the whole transaction a whole lot easier and much less stressful.
Good points. Ray mentioned a test difference from 285.5 to 278.5 capacity. That is 2.45% less measured capacity. Is that an acceptable difference? Can it be accounted for with other variables changing - room temp differences, air flow over testing apparatus (a lot, a little or none), etc., etc? What would be interesting to see it the same test done on the same batteries 10x. Do you get 100% same results each time? Is there any variation? How much? A lot? A little? One thing I never seen anyone mention is if the equipment they use has been calibrated or certified in any way. How do you know that what the ZKE tester says is accurate? How much error is in its circuitry? Do tests done in the winter on batteries give the same results as those done in the summer? There are probably more knowledgeable people here who can address accuracy, repeatability, certification, calibration, etc. I know that until I got a Fluke 724 temperature calibrator and a Fluke dry well calibrator it was near to impossible to check the accuracy of temperature equipment. With Fluke testers, you can sent it in to them and they can calibrate and certify your testing equipment and you at least start off there with good, known equipment.
These are all good points. Although he tested the same type of cells from another supplier before and after and they tested at the capacity that they should.
These are all good points and we could argue testing methods but......
The real issue is that SFK has chosen to attack and threaten Ray by bringing up a shoplifting charge from over 40 years ago and further threatening to publish his home address which could possibly put him and his family at risk.
There is no scenario where that is an appropriate response.
Right, but when was that? Winter? Summer? Does ambient temp effect testing? I'm just asking. I don't know. What if you run a fan over some or all equipmet, does that effect anything? Does warm or cold equipment effect anything? What about incoming grid voltage? Does that effect anything? With all due respect to Ray, maybe repeating the test on different and same batteries could provide better info. Can the tests be repeated with identical results? If they are different why are they different? What if 1 battery is left on a charger for x hrs on 1st test then x+25% more time on charger for 2nd test, will the same battery show the exact same AH capacity regardless of time spent on the charger? I.e. absorbtion time less or more? I suspect that results will be different each time. Try to eliminate as may variables as possible and see what the results are. Doing a test once and getting 1 number is one thing, do it again and get the same number is another thing. Anyway, testing is not easy.
Right. Agree 100%. Not appropriate at all. I was truly shocked when I saw both his and the SFK video response. You have to be so careful when putting stuff "out there." All the more reason to do good tests. It is easy to overlook something. Ray did a followup correction video himself explaining how he missed something.
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
Some of our Oldtimer Geezers took our chances. Some got lucky, some of us didn't at great expense. Myself, I dumped close to $4500usd into the shredder over the years.
Through all those experiences we've found the Good, the Bad and the Ugly as well as the slicksters and sheisters. We've shared that info with all for everyone's benefit...
SFK is no different, many spotted "them" out from the get go... Will Prowse being one who banned them ASAP.
TBH
SFK is getting far TOO MUCH AIRPLAY in here & getting Google ranking as a result.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Horsefly
Solar Wizard
Yes, it does, and more than I had realized. I had 8 cells that I got from Amy Wan last November. They came with capacity test results (I assume from Eve), but I decided to test them anyway. It was in the 50°s in my garage, and I figured that was warm enough it would not effect the capacity. All of the cells tested 6-12Ah less than the report, and all but two of them were below the spec 280Ah. Someone here pointed out that the cells really like the ambient temperature that humans like, i.e. 70-75°F. So I retested two of them inside my home and the results closely matched what Amy had provided. Ray does his testing in his home, so I assume the cells were in that same range. More importantly - as others have pointed out - Ray has tested hundreds of cells the same way in the same house with the same equipment.
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
if you had looked at ray's earlier test video's you would have seen he keeps the room where he test at the same temp and uses the same equipment and procedure ( his tester allows for programmable schema's for testing)
said it before,next the threatning his privacy, attemping to discredit him and the method used,
skf knew full well what would happen if they send ray stuff not up to par and tries to mucle themselves out of a pr nightmare, that in fact they worsened all on their own with their antics
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
I've pointed out in several threads including (especially the one below a WIP about temps even Rack vs Flat Shelf and issues and more... Even 2C temp difference between packs can affect a bank of batteries.
diysolarforum.com
Steve_S-TECH: What is BMS SoC and LFP Battery Bank information.
Intro: BMS SoC and system SoC readings are always a source of great debate and even great argument(s). This Posting addresses MANY of the issues not considered, nor weighed and delves into the Important MInutia which can & often does create confusion & misunderstandings that result falling into...
diysolarforum.com
Bud Martin
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2020
- Messages
- 4,843
If you watch Ray's video, he did retest the cell from another vendor that he bought a while back.
You can also watch Andy Offgridgarage results on charging cell with different absorption time and different Voltages, etc., he also uses the same tester as Ray, other members here also have the same tester.
May be you should buy the batteries and the tester to perform all the test with difference setting and see the results for yourself as Andy had done, it will a good learning. Do you think you will have time to invest to do all those tests?
Did you also look at EVE cell at 18650batterystore? Some members here had bought them and got good results.
Last edited:
SilverbackMP
Solar Addict
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2022
- Messages
- 928
It doesn’t really work that way…a brand mention with no link won’t help them very much at all. And if they are linked to in this thread, it will have a “nofollow” tag added to it, which also won’t help them much at all.
It is much more like this thread will come up very high in the search results, along with the YouTube video.
They’ve pretty much sunk their business; I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it other than with the progressive cancel crowd nuking a business over a stupid comment. This was completely self-inflicted.
In some states, your record as a minor as publicly available forever. Virginia is definitely one.
I will add that my dealings with AltE have been extremely positive.
Sverige
A Brit in Sweden
I looked up SFK on Google maps out of curiosity to see what their Google reviews were like. No reviews and no option to add a review. In other words they’ve ticked the box to prevent users leaving a review associated with their maps entry. Why would a legit business with happy customers do that? A rogue trader with customer complaints piling up might have every reason to do so though!
Why? Because there are so many ways to abuse the review process. You can purchase positive reviews and people that never have spent a dime with a company can submit negative reviews.
I have no opinion with this 'fight' but when it comes to reviews, I can understand why a company does not allow reviews. It's just another good way that got tarnished by radicals.
I have no opinion with this 'fight' but when it comes to reviews, I can understand why a company does not allow reviews. It's just another good way that got tarnished by radicals.
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