"Ford secures battery supplies for 600,000 EVs a year from 2023"
- Thread starter chess-equality
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Oh do tell me about the times you've stood out the front of Disneyworld protesting. Or out front of every single Amazon fulfillment center protesting. Or any corporate HQ in any city, because they all got tax breaks. Or basically any shopping mall. And tell me about when you protested against the car factories that Toyota built in Kentucky or Honda built in Ohio. Or BMW built in South Carolina. Or Mercedes built in Alabama. Yep, every single one subsidized with your tax dollars to encourage behavior that the mighty free market wouldn't otherwise have done: employ American workers.
Grow up. Oil subsidies are not a myth at all. Saying it doesn't make it so.
One does not need to break windows, march down main street while chanting, riot to protest. My protests are done in places like right here and now.
BTW at my age of 63 if I am not grown up I consider it a plus.
Ampster
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I am sure the same issues existed 120 years ago when the horse and buggy crowd said there were not going to be enough gas stations.
cs1234
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They were literally walking in piles of poop. We're just breathing it..
Ampster
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That explains the long skirts so the poop on their shoes could not be seen.
Hedges
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In 12 years I've driven 150,000 miles in a hand-me-down Civic; at $0.10 per mile it has cost me $15,000. Imagine what I've saved over an EV.
At post-Ukraine gas prices it will be closer to $0.20 per mile.
Perhaps in another 150,000 miles, or maybe tomorrow, I'll be due for a replacement. At that point I'll drive the pickup while shopping for a plug-in hybrid.
cs1234
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Yup, when you look at those old photos, nobody was wearing shorts and flip flops. That's what the automobile has truly done for us, we can now wear shorts and flip flops everywhere.
Hedges
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Biggest subsidy is in dollars and blood, for middle east oil.
Our Navy should not protect shipping lanes for foreign-flagged ships, unless there is a mutual defense treaty with costs proportionately borne by beneficiaries.
Domestic oil has its own costs (environmental and water supply damage) but doesn't require Regime Change in other countries.
The costs should trickle down to the pump. Then, competition with EV could occur on a level playing field.
Ampster
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I can do the math and the cost of driving an EV would be less but nothing can beat the acquisition cost of a hand me down Civic.
cs1234
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I would say "Don't worry, nobody is going to take your junky old civic away from you.", but that would be a lie. I'm sure if you park it in the wrong place for a few minutes it will at the very least be missing the cat if not gone altogether.
I have a Prius, but I also own a huge 26' diesel box truck, the right tool for the job and all that, one gets 45mpg and can't carry anything. The box truck can pull a house and I can't even tell that it's got anything loaded in it, but my goodness, the GPM! (gallons per mile)
EV's have many advantages over existing vehicles, and they have many disadvantages in our current situation. For many homeowners, EV's are fine, for apartment dwellers or people with only street level parking, not so much. People that need oversized vehicles for hauling crap around all day, with day jobs that last from before the sun comes up to the middle of the night, an EV isn't going to work.
Over time the problems with EV's will be lessened, and people will adjust, and possibly even come to love them. Especially once the aftermarket comes in and you can get fart cannon add ons and fake coal roller attachments!
cs1234
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I've owned a couple Honda's over the years, I loved them, but I've found something to like about pretty much every car I've had. Machines and technology are cool, even crappy products can be appreciated for their attempt at doing something.
Hedges
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Many times, someone has pulled up next to me and asked, "Would you sell it?"
I live in San Jose, and a base model Civic CX, without so much as power steering, is the best platform to install a VTEC engine for performance.
Couple Christmases ago, I went to the driveway an found the Civic missing. It was ditched later a few blocks away, with some items and mail left inside. All that is needed to steal one is a handful of keys.
Couple days later, someone drove through the neighborhood slowly. My neighbor went over to see what he wanted. "Have you seen this car?" he asked, as he held up a photo of a white Civic. The Postal Inspector; my car and been spotted stealing U.S. mail. Fortunately, I had a police report (which I could have arranged after the fact), but also a security video from gas station with the suspects putting $20 worth of gas in the tank at 8:00 AM.
Hedges
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Best car I've every owed.
At 170k, heard a tapping noise, confirmed my diagnosis Googling. I pulled the transmission, replaced bad bearing and a couple other parts.
My repair costs have averaged maybe $150/year for that, timing belt kit, radiator, A/C, etc. Not counting tires, oil, hoses.
Sable about $250/year having overhauled transmission, top end, replace cat, water pump, harmonic balancer, etc.
Much more bother for the Mercury than the Honda.
Expenses of $10 to $20/month are way down on the Pareto chart.
A Saab 99LE gave me a lot of trouble, but as you say there are things to be appreciated as well.
How are EVs at breakdowns? DIY repairs?
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
The story by @Hedges is reason number 35 to own an EV. My EV can be remotely turned off and located via GPS and it saves a video of the person who stole it. It also doesn't use a key. I should clarify the key thing. One uses a Fob and the other uses the Bluetooth on my phone but does have a key card for use in emergencies.
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Hedges
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It doesn't use a key to steal it?
Back in the days of electric fuel pumps and carburetors, disabling fuel pump was probably best theft defense.
After car is hotwired and driven half a block, it dies in the middle of the street. Not likely he will hang around to debug it.
Does yours have a geofence feature? Then it can notify you rather than the other way around.
Is your EV full self-driving? Instead of turning it off ...
Back in the days of electric fuel pumps and carburetors, disabling fuel pump was probably best theft defense.
After car is hotwired and driven half a block, it dies in the middle of the street. Not likely he will hang around to debug it.
Does yours have a geofence feature? Then it can notify you rather than the other way around.
Is your EV full self-driving? Instead of turning it off ...
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Lower cost of operation. A simple 3 phase motor with one moving part. Eight year warranty on drive train and battery. Not DIY friendly for repair, but none of the ICE cars I owned previously could be repaired without a diagnostic computer.
Hedges
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One part moving maybe 27,000 RPM and a few more to reduce that to driveline speeds.
Something along these lines is all the diagnostic computer I've used. OBD-II reader with live data graph.
Tells me which cylinder is misfiring, graphs O2 over time, etc.
www.harborfreight.com
If an EV was just a fairly dumb VFD module (like on my pool pump) going to drive motor, there would be less concern.
Some EV seem to have considerable computer integration.
I don't want "Automobile as a service", any more than I want "Printer ink as a service"
www.howtogeek.com
You can lease me something, or you can sell me something. If I buy it, you can't charge me to use it or reach in and shut it off.
Something along these lines is all the diagnostic computer I've used. OBD-II reader with live data graph.
Tells me which cylinder is misfiring, graphs O2 over time, etc.
ZR8s OBD2 Code Reader with Live Data
Amazing deals on this Zr8S Live Data Obd2 Code Reader at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
If an EV was just a fairly dumb VFD module (like on my pool pump) going to drive motor, there would be less concern.
Some EV seem to have considerable computer integration.
I don't want "Automobile as a service", any more than I want "Printer ink as a service"
HP’s Ink Subscription Has DRM That Disables Your Printer Cartridges
Printer ink is expensive. HP promises to help with a subscription service for ink, complete with cartridges that stop working when you cancel your subscription. But HP makes you count pages, and I’d rather print as much as I want.
www.howtogeek.com
You can lease me something, or you can sell me something. If I buy it, you can't charge me to use it or reach in and shut it off.
Ampster
Renewable Energy Hobbyist
Oh yes, significant computer integration. Rebooting is the first thing I do if there is an issue. I also get updates over the air at least several times a month, I realized it is not for everyone and that is another reason I am not worried about grid capacity because there will always be lots of people keeping their ICE vehicles running.
Yes a couple of fixed gears in the differential to give it an 8 to 1 ratio. I have to change that oil once every 50,000 miles.
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