diy solar

diy solar

Adding Schneider XW Pro

Yeah, I had looked at both of those or similar elements.

The reservoir I currently use is too small for either of those. So either I need a shorter element, larger reservoir, or a dedicated vessel to flow the coolant through and mount the element.

This one might work. But, it's going to be close. I've got to double check my measurements. But at 800 watts/110volts. At 50 volts, it be 160 watts. I'll probably go with this one or something similar if I don't a heater mat to work. Sticking a heater mat on the back of the reservoir would be an easier solution than welding in a mounting boss for the cartridge heater.

 
What firmware versions are you running on the WX-Pro and your Insight box? I had heard there was another update, but the latest I am finding online for the XW Pro is still 1.11 but there is a 1.14 for the Gateway.
 
I'm behind on updates it appears, but no final results on either issue (temp control or batter communication) I'm working through.

I found a small enough 48v, 200 watt thread in immersion heater. That's probably a month out, just waiting on shipping.

For firmware: the XW is on 1.11, the gateway I just updated to 1.14
I actually have the newer InsightHome, which as far as I can tell, has basically the same function, just lower cost. I believe the insight and gateway even use the same firmware.

With 1.14, I have verified there is communication from the BMS to the insight, but I'm working with Batrium to do some testing. Before full implementation.

I believe Schneider planned to release 1.12 for the XW some time back. One of the gateway firmware release notes said something about being required for the XW update? I might be mistaken.
 
I noted this when upgrading, is it what you recall?

Screen Shot 2021-10-03 at 18.38.10.png

I am at 1.11 on the inverter, 1.12 on the gateway.
 
I did an experiment today on the AC2 generator connection on my XW Pro.
This is an off-grid system, but I can connect to the grid, if compelled to do so for some reason.
Here is something that I noticed, and do not understand why the XW Pro does this.

If I connect the grid to AC1, the XW Pro inverter supports the load from both the PV input, and the grid AC1 input.
So the load is supported by both grid and PV, simultaneously. The inverter decides how much power to take from each.

If I connect the generator to AC2 , the XW Pro shuts off the input from the PV,
and only serves the load from the generator on AC2, exclusively.

So even though there is energy available from the PV, the inverter won’t use it when AC2 is also providing energy.

I don’t get why the PV is used when there is power available from AC1, shut off PV when powered from AC2.?
 
If I connect the generator to AC2 , the XW Pro shuts off the input from the PV,
and only serves the load from the generator on AC2, exclusively.

How is your solar connected? DC with charge a controller? Or AC coupled with a PV inverter?
 
Solar is connected to a Schneider MPPT 100A-600VDC charge controller.
All DC coupled.
 
Interesting, what do you want it to do when running th generator?

The behavior on AC 1 is effected by your grid support settings.

Isn't there is a generator support section? I don't have a generator, so I haven't touched it.


What is your generator max continuous output?

I'd expect the programming to default to using the generator to support as much as possible as it is only run when needed. Then with the settings, I'd want the unused generator output to charge th battery.

For example, if you've got a 5,000 watt continuous generator, but only 2,000 watts of load, put the remaining 3,000 watts into the battery to make the most of generator run time and to push the generator into the high load/high efficiency area.
 
I do know that there are separate settings for "Grid Support" vs "Generator Support". And the XW-Pro is specifically designed and programmed so that it can't export power to the AC2 input as most generators can't handle back fed current. So check your settings under generator support. It will only start to pull DC and invert it when the generator is asked to supply more than the support limit. It can't support down to zero as that would completely unload the generator and have a chance of causing back feed. On my older 1.09 firmware, the Generator support slider does go down to 0 amps, but I seem to remember reading that it won't actually go below about 0.5 amps.
 
If I connect the generator to AC2 , the XW Pro shuts off the input from the PV,
and only serves the load from the generator on AC2, exclusively.

Your PV goes to a charge controller, is the PV/SCC still charging the battery at this time? I don't think the XW can stop the charge controller from charging the battery.
 
Possbly I did this test too late in the day for the PV to operate reliably, will do it again tomorrow and see if a different result occurs
 
If you don't know what the SCC was doing how can you say above the that the XW stopped your PV when on generator?

If you want the XW to power some of the load from battery/DC voltage after the charge controller, you've probably got some settings to adjust. You can tell the XW how much the generator can support, then the XW would support loads after that.

When on grid (AC1) you probably had grid support or another option enabled which will limit how much current it will allow to come from the grid, once the load exceeds that setting, the rest of the load is covered by the XW/battery.


There's going to be two different sections for these settings. Grid and generator aren't going to be treated the same.
 
In the past I found that with AC1 connected the load received energy from both the AC1 (grid) and the PV simultaneously.
Today's test looked like when AC2 is energized and AC1 is disconnected, the PV input is also disconnected.
I'll know more when the Sun comes up tomorrow. I suspect that Gary is right about AC2 blocking export, just not sure about the PV.
 
Since you are DC coupled, the settings get a bit interesting. I have read up a bit on it since I am hoping to add some DC panels and a Schneider MPPT 60-150 to my system.

As I understand it, the XW-Pro inverter will start using battery power as needed to meet the power goals set in the Grid Support or Generator Support menus. It will be able to run until the battery is depleted to your minimum voltage or state of charge settings. In my case right now, the only charge source is the XW-Pro inverter, and that causes a few problems with their software. Grid Support and Sell to Grid can only work when the battery is 0.5 volts above the Recharge Volts in the XW-Pro. That makes it so I can't get it to go back into charge mode on it's own. But that is not a problem when your charge is coming from the MPPT controller.

You can do a few different things in the MPPT to get around this problem. The first one is that you can set the Recharge Volts in the MPPT to a different higher value than it is set in the XW-Pro. So the XW can run the battery down to where the MPPT will go back into bulk charge mode. But you can also do one better. Set the MPPT to also use "Float Charge". Now we don't really want to keep our Lithium batteries on float charge, it's not good for the batteries, but by changing the settings, we can make it do something very cool. Once the battery is fully charge after the bulk and absorb charge modes are done, we do want the charge current to stop. So we set the MPPT float voltage about 0.5 volts below the voltage the battery rests to when the absorb charge ends. Let's say we have very little load on the output of the XW. The solar power from the MPPT will top up the batteries, and then shut down. But now the solar energy hitting the panels is just not being used. That's not good. But where is it going to go? Unless you turn on a dump load, this is all we can do. We don't want to over charge the batteries. Since the battery is 0.5 volts above the float voltage, the MPPT does drop to zero current, so we have "no float" current. But now we do put a load on the XW output. Now the battery voltage starts to come down. After it drops that 0.5 volts, then the MPPT will start using solar power again to keep the battery at this "fake float voltage" and it will ramp it's current up to hold the battery at this voltage. We can set the maximum float current up quite high to use as much solar as we can to keep running the loads until the sun goes down. After sunset, the MPPT shuts off again as there is not solar coming in. The XW will run on the batteries and bring the voltage down to it's low voltage cutoff, or until the sun comes up the next day. As long as the battery went below the MPPT controllers "Recharge Volts" setting, the MPPT will go right back into Bulk Charge when the sun comes up.

Since the MPPT and the XW inverter are separate devices, the XW can be inverting from the DC buss and powering loads while the MPPT is taking the solar power and putting it onto the DC buss. As long as the solar power is greater than the power the XW is pulling, the battery will be charging with the difference. If solar falls short, it will be discharging the battery.

In my case, I will have the MPPT 60/150 set to it's maximum 60 amps. My planned DC solar will top out at under 3,000 watts. That just about maxes out the 60 amp MPPT controller at 48 volts. So any power that the inverter needs will come out of the charge rate. If I have no load, the 60 amp charge rate is no problem for my battery bank. But if this was a system with a lot more DC solar, and batteries like flooded lead acid, the charge current may need to be limited. From looking at the settings, I can't tell if the Schneider system is smart enough the know it could supply the battery charge current PLUS and current being used by the inverter. For example, you have 8,000 watts of solar to a pair of MPPT 100/600 charge controllers. At solar noon, that could exceed 150 amps amps of output from the MPPT's, but the battery bank might only be able to take 80 amps. But the XW inverter is pulling 4,000 watts to run the refrigerator and the mini split A/C. If the current limit was set to just the safe 80 amps to the batteries, then all of the solar would now just be going to the inverter, and the batteries would not be charging at all, even though, we do actually have plenty of solar to get some charging even while running the loads. Does the Schneider Batt Mon tell the Schneider MPPT's what the true charge current really is?
 
Thanks, looks like it is behaving just as you say @ 07:49 this morning!

Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 07.49.40.png

I'll turn on the workshop AC after about 10AM and see what the inverter decides to do w/ the load.
Here is what Schneider tech support told me about how the Battery Monitor interacts w/ the rest of the Schneider system:


schneider_battery_monitor_functions copy.png

I forgot about the well pump & plant watering automatic timer (09:00=on), here is the load from the well pump.
So the inverter and MPPT are operating independently when AC2 is the power source.
I'll switch to AC1 and see what the result is.

Screen Shot 2021-10-04 at 09.03.01.png
 
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Your "problem" at this point is that you only have 200 watts coming in from the solar. That is just not enough to help run the 1,900 watts of load.
 
I moved the AC input to the inverter to AC1.
No change in the power flow separation of the MPPT CC and inverter serving the load, compared to using AC2.

I’m guessing this is because I have both “Grid support” and “Charging” shut off in the inverter.
I don’t understand all the configuration options in the “Grid support” menu well enough to be confident changing them yet.
Charging configuration in the XW Pro seems to be logical.

The problem I am trying to address is how to charge the batteries w/ the generator.
Trying to come up with a configuration that we can document and employ when there is a long duration grid outage,
and also many days w/o Sun.
(Last hurricane, we did not have solar, were on generator for 2 weeks. Now we have a solar option)

The inverter qualifies the utility grid input OK on AC1, but the generator input to the inverter is also on AC1, and when the property is on generator, the inverter AC1 rejects the generator input whenever the voltage &/or frequency fluctuates.
I am hoping to make the AC1 configuration more tolerant by changing the frequency & voltage numbers to resemble the default AC2 configuration.

The reason I can’t connect the generator to AC2 is that the generator output is 90A of 240VAC.
The XW Pro documentation says no more than 60A input on AC2.

I need the full 90A generator output connected directly to the house, so when we are on generator, the heat pump and other large loads can operate.

Now that the solar has been added, the “major grid outage” plan is to run the house & workshop on generator during the day,
solar batteries @ night.
We have enough Diesel fuel to run for about a month in this manner.

The switchgear treats the house/workshop as one single electrical load.
When the Square-D manual transfer switches are configured to send the genset to the house/workshop, the XW Pro sees 240v from the generator on AC1.
When switched to grid, AC1 sees the utility grid.
Solar can be switched in to replace the genset. (I open the breaker for AC1 for this configuration, otherwise the inverter is sending itself 240v on AC1)

So the other part of the plan is to configure the XW Pro for charging, when we are in “major grid outage” mode.
Does not seem like I would need to activate Grid Support if I just want to charge the batteries w/ generator.
 
I enabled "Grid Support", and now the inverter is load sharing between PV and grid, great!

grid_support_enabled.png

This is how it works when clouds attenuate the PV, the inverter takes as much PV as available and then supplements from the grid when "grid Support" is enabled.

cloud_effect.png
 
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The AC1 input is meant for the grid and it has strict grid code requirements that it has to meet to qualify the power.

The AC2 input should be used for the generator, and you can adjust the tolerance to allow for generator voltage and frequency fluctuations. But it still has it's limits. My generator is having issues with the governor and it won't stay qualified. I have to work on the linkage to make it hold a more stable rpm when the load changes.

So try this...
Connect your generator to the AC2 input. Once th generator is running stable, and the XW qualifies the power, se the maximum charge power fairly low, say 10%. The go to the "Controls" tab, go to the "Force Charger State" section. Select "Bulk" in the pull down box, and then click on on apply.

That will force the charger into the bulk charge state as long as it is not already full, and the charge is not time blocked. 10% should be a mild 14 amps or so of charge current. That should take around 800 watts from the generator. If that works, then you can go to the setup tab and raise the max charge current a bit. That change does happen in real time.
 
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