Adding Schneider XW Pro

[pvdude]

OK, great!
The next generator load test is scheduled for 11-19, so I’ll see what results obtain at that time.
I am running 1.11 on the XW Pro, there is not much difference between the configuration parameters
between AC1 (grid) and AC2 (generator).

- Reconnect time delay for AC1 is 12 seconds, AC2 is 36 seconds
- Low voltage reconnect offset for AC1 is 6v, AC2 is 9.6v
- Low voltage time delayed disconnect for AC1 is 99v, for AC2 is 102v

All the other configuration values between AC1 and AC2 are identical, except that AC1 has
two settings that AC2 does not, I can select:
Static operating reference voltage 120v
or
Dynamic Operating reference voltage filter averaging time 7200 seconds.
Neither one is selected by default, so I will leave it alone.

 

[400bird]

The transfer relays are all rated at 60 amps. If your loads need all 90 amps the generator can output, you're overloading the XW.

 

[GXMnow]

Mine is still on 1.08, so the menus are different, but under the AC settings, I can change the AC2 high and low voltage limits, I currently have them at 90 to 132 volts, and also the high and low frequency limits, I spread those out to 50 to 65 Hz. I have not fixed my generator's governor yet, so I have not had a chance to test with with the wider settings. They can be spread out even wider, but my bigger problem is that it actually needs to be fairly stable. It may work down to 50 Hz, but when the frequency bounces from 62 down to 57, and back up again, it can't track it quick enough and it disconnects. I had installed a new carb on it, and the linkage is a little different, so the governor is overshooting. I need to slow the response a little so it can catch without jumping too far. I got it working well enough that it run my refrigerator and a few other loads just fine, but when the XW tried to start charging, it went stupid again.

 

[400bird]

Well, I'm a bit discouraged. I was starting down the road of adding a some DC panels and I ran into NEC 690.11


It doesn't appear that any of the Schneider charge controllers include arc fault detection.
They do ground fault detection internally, but not AFD/AFCI.
Looks like Schneider's only solution is the MPPT Disconnect RS
That and the remote switch for outdoor mounting would add another $700+ to the project.

I found an older thread about the situation, but unless someone follows up with a solution, I'm stuck.

Stand Alone Solar Arc-fault protection devices.

I have been studying the NEC requirements for wiring solar panels and one of the requirements is arc-fault protection if the PV array is at 80V or more. However, when I search for PV arc-fault protection product.... I find no stand-alone products. Some SSRs have it built in. Most grid-tie...

diysolarforum.com

 

[pvdude]

I wonder if one of these would be a less costly solution, and still meet the NEC requirements?

 

[400bird]

I'd love to find something similar, but rated for it.

That specific one is rated for 230vac @ 50hz, so it won't work and isn't approved.

 

[Hedges]

Here is what you probably want as a sensor, to control a remote-trip disconnect (e.g. breaker or RSD)

https://www.sensata.com/sites/default/files/a/sensata-pvaf%20t%20series-arc%20fault%20detection-datasheet.pdf

I don't see any for sale presently. I picked up a couple on eBay a while back for future use.
These things or similar have been integrated in disconnects from Midnight and others.

Stand Alone Solar Arc-fault protection devices.

I have been studying the NEC requirements for wiring solar panels and one of the requirements is arc-fault protection if the PV array is at 80V or more. However, when I search for PV arc-fault protection product.... I find no stand-alone products. Some SSRs have it built in. Most grid-tie...

diysolarforum.com

Sensata PVAF T series PV Arc Fault Detector datasheet

This manual is for the Sensata Arc Fault detector that can be used in conjunction with a disconnect device to implement arc fault protection on you solar array.

diysolarforum.com

If you can use a Midnight SCC instead of Schneider, get AFCI built in it (whole thing for the price of the Schneider AFCI add-on)

 

[400bird]

Thanks I saw that in the other thread and a quick glance at eBay shows none available.

I'm not sure if it would be approved, but it doesn't matter if I can't find one.

I'd just wire it into the RSD, I don't think I'd need a separate SSR.


I wish Schneider had afd built in like the Midnite. The Schneider charge controller is $500. If they sold a charge controller with AFD built in for $5-700, like others do...

 

[Gild]

What firmware versions are you running on the WX-Pro and your Insight box? I had heard there was another update, but the latest I am finding online for the XW Pro is still 1.11 but there is a 1.14 for the Gateway.

I recently updated to 1.15 on the Gateway and have had continuous reporting problems, devices drop out and I can no longer get to the configuration menu on the inverters...I sure hope it's the firmware and not the physical Gateway.

 

[pvdude]

Thanks for the info!
My gateway is @ 1.12, guess I will leave it alone.
I wonder if the other Schneider equipment FW also needs to be upgraded,
so as to be compatible w/ 1.15?

 

[Gild]

Thanks for the info!
My gateway is @ 1.12, guess I will leave it alone.
I wonder if the other Schneider equipment FW also needs to be upgraded,
so as to be compatible w/ 1.15?

It's all been upgraded to the latest firmware. Now I'm having trouble trying to get the Gateway to accept the downgrade back to 1.14.

 

[shorawitz]

I'm at 1.12 as well. Forgive my laziness for not reading the previous posts, but is there a feature/fix that you need to upgrade?

 

[400bird]

Sorry to hear that. I updated to 1.14 to enable communication with my BMS. I've verified the basics "they talk" but, I've got to go through Batrium's procedure to verify the communication works as expected.

I was looking at 1.15 and was going to download the release notes, sounds like that update isn't working. They pulled the original version of 1.14, it's been fixed and reposted. So, I know they are at least somewhat responsive to issues with updates.

Edit: was there any new feature that was included in 1.15?

 

[GXMnow]

I am still on 1.08 I need to shut my system down to do the update, so I am hoping they do fix a few things before I do it.

 

[pvdude]

Anyone have a guess as to why the Grid Energy (sell) counter is incrementing up, when I have “Sell Amps=0”?
Or is this possibly just a bug, showing fake numbers: ie: "noise"?

Is there some other place in the configuration I need to edit to stop sending energy to the grid?
All I am trying to do is obtain grid support when there is no Sun, so as to avoid running down the batteries.
The system is very good about using PV for the loads as first priority, then going to batteries as second priority, until the voltage drop triggers priority 3, to take energy from the grid.

 

[400bird]

It shows 1 Watt-hour sold to grid today and 2 Wh for the week?

I don't know think you're going to do much better than that. What is that $0.0002 worth of electricity of the power company double charges you.

Why turn on grid support at 0 amps? Doesn't it make more sense to just turn it off?

Is your solar DC coupled or AC coupled?

Edit: I think I understand, grid support is you pushing power out to the grid. "Supporting the grid"

If you are normally connected to the grid, your loads will be supported by the grid when the battery voltage runs low. I can't remember the specific voltage setting for it, but I'll search later.

 

[GXMnow]

When I have grid sell blocked, it still runs the loads on my backup panel, and it pulls about 100 watts from the grid input. With grid sell on, but set to zero, I see it bounce around 100 watts in or out. It is all just how quick it can respond to load changes in your house on the inverter output side. If your power demand drops, it will export for a second or so before it adjusts. I assume you do have some load back in your main panel. That tiny bit of grid sell, is probably being soaked up by those loads. In my house, I have about 200 watts in my main panel that is always there. The only big load in my main panel is my central AC compressor unit. Then it is the AC powered smoke detectors, a few lights around the house, the TV in my bedroom, and things like that.

If you add the WattNode box and program that for zero export at the main into your home, it will "export" back to the main panel to run the loads there as well, while still not actually exporting out to the grid. Once I add the DC charging to my system, I will likely add the WattNode as well, so I can have it self adjust to power my AC. For now, I just have it "sell" 600 watts back to my main panel from 4 pm to 9 pm during the peak time of use rate. In the hot summer, when the AC was running more, I had it as high as 1,200 watts to the main panel. I have a NEM 2.0 agreement, so I am completely legal to push up to 16 amps (3,840 watts) back to the grid, as long as I don't exceed 900 KWHs of export for the whole month. I am not even close to either of those numbers. When I first got the XW up and running, I did hit 22 amps of export for a couple minutes, Oops.

My XW shows lifetime Grid Energy (Sell) at 5.8 MEGA watt hours now. That comes out to just under 200 KWHs a month. Since I am running AC coupled through the XW, this number also includes my excess solar production that goes through the XW back to the grid, even while it is charging. I do not sell anywhere near that from battery. I do my best to keep the battery to grid close to zero.

Since my solar production has been down a bit lately, due to the low sun angle and some pesky palm trees, it is interesting to see the battery charge current drop, when I turn on a heavy load in the backup loads panel. It knows to reduce charge current to keep the grid current below a safe limit for the input breaker. I am still only feeding it with a 20 amp circuit, because that is my solar back feed breaker as well. I am limited to just 20 amps to or from the main panel. I am currently charging at 24.5 amps at 55 volts into my battery bank. That's 1,348 watts. When I turn on the microwave, it add 1,700 watts to that, plus all the other loads I have on at the time. And the solar is producing under 2,000 watts. So it dipped the charge current down to 20 amps, just to be sure the 20 amp input breaker was fine. When the sun is higher in the sky, I never saw that happening.

 

[pvdude]

My system is “off grid”, so I can’t sell back to the utility.
DC coupled PV.
What I need is a “software diode”, so I can supplement our loads from the grid, but never send energy to the grid.
The “Grid Support” option works perfectly, the inverter decides when it needs to extract energy from the grid (rare event), but most of the time, loads are supported by the PV and battery only.
If the utility does not notice the tiny amount of export, I’m not going to worry about it, just weird to see that statistic pop up.
I use IotaWatt to monitor the current flows, but the CT don’t register such tiny amounts of current flowing “backwards” to the grid.

 

[Gild]

It's all been upgraded to the latest firmware. Now I'm having trouble trying to get the Gateway to accept the downgrade back to 1.14.

Well, it wasn't the firmware causing the problem. It ended up being the Gateway that was failing and eventually lost all connectivity. Schneider sent me a InsightFacility to replace the discontinued Gateway and it's running great now on version 1.15.

 

[400bird]

Well, that's great news! I'm not sure if that's an upgrade, but at least it's working again.