Adding Schneider XW Pro
- Thread starter 400bird
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400bird
Solar Wizard
I really should have used the cherry picker to lift the XW into place, great idea!
If you had a 4 volt drop that should create some good heat on one of the connections, it would be ~120 watts (4 volts * 30 amps). You should be able to find it by feeling around on different connections or using a volt meter.
I'm not super familiar with lead batteries at 48 volts, but in a car you charge the 12v battery to 14 volts and it rests at 12.6 volts when fully charged.
You may be seeing something similar, that is just normal for lead acid, where the voltage moves around a lot more when charging or discharging.
If you had a 4 volt drop that should create some good heat on one of the connections, it would be ~120 watts (4 volts * 30 amps). You should be able to find it by feeling around on different connections or using a volt meter.
I'm not super familiar with lead batteries at 48 volts, but in a car you charge the 12v battery to 14 volts and it rests at 12.6 volts when fully charged.
You may be seeing something similar, that is just normal for lead acid, where the voltage moves around a lot more when charging or discharging.
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Yes, FLA is old tech, and I see the same voltage drop in my truck. running/charging @ 13.8.
Shut off, it drops to 12.x pretty quick.
So I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I am about 50+ years past being able to lift that 120lb thing up that high.
Thus plan "B"!!!!
Shut off, it drops to 12.x pretty quick.
So I'm not going to worry about it too much.
I am about 50+ years past being able to lift that 120lb thing up that high.
Thus plan "B"!!!!
New inverter is on the wall!
DIY lifting contraption worked well.
If you look closely, I put a second inverter wall bracket up, when there was room to do the drilling.
Hope to add a second inverter someday, so that there is enough amperage to start the heat pump.
DIY lifting contraption worked well.
If you look closely, I put a second inverter wall bracket up, when there was room to do the drilling.
Hope to add a second inverter someday, so that there is enough amperage to start the heat pump.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I did a grid down test today, it was a great success!
The Schneider caught the power loss with just the slightest flicker of the lights. Oddly enough the LED lighting in one bathroom was very unhappy with the Schneider's power, but that light was an outlier. The PV kicked on right on the 5 minute mark.
It even started my central air! I don't have a "ton" or BTU rating (I don't see a sticker on it showing that info anywhere ?
) But, to be fair I did add a soft start in hopes that it would start every time.
Around 1 pm the pack was reaching the 57.4 volts (bulk/absorption set point) the frequency shift worked and the PV curtailed output, it wasn't as smooth as I would hope, but also I don't have the current sensors hooked up right now to see if it was the PV or consumption that was changing .
I flipped the grid back on and didn't even notice a flicker when we reconnected to the grid, neither did the PV.
It's unrelated but this evening, around 5:00pm, the XW status was something like "grid frequency stabilization" for just long enough for me to read it, then it was gone and back to AC passthrough.
I haven't seen that inverter status before, not sure I remember it from the Schneider manual either.
The Schneider caught the power loss with just the slightest flicker of the lights. Oddly enough the LED lighting in one bathroom was very unhappy with the Schneider's power, but that light was an outlier. The PV kicked on right on the 5 minute mark.
It even started my central air! I don't have a "ton" or BTU rating (I don't see a sticker on it showing that info anywhere ?
) But, to be fair I did add a soft start in hopes that it would start every time.Around 1 pm the pack was reaching the 57.4 volts (bulk/absorption set point) the frequency shift worked and the PV curtailed output, it wasn't as smooth as I would hope, but also I don't have the current sensors hooked up right now to see if it was the PV or consumption that was changing .
I flipped the grid back on and didn't even notice a flicker when we reconnected to the grid, neither did the PV.
It's unrelated but this evening, around 5:00pm, the XW status was something like "grid frequency stabilization" for just long enough for me to read it, then it was gone and back to AC passthrough.
I haven't seen that inverter status before, not sure I remember it from the Schneider manual either.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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"It's unrelated but this evening, around 5:00pm, the XW status was something like "grid frequency stabilization" for just long enough for me to read it, then it was gone and back to AC passthrough.
I haven't seen that inverter status before, not sure I remember it from the Schneider manual either."
Mentioned here, seems to be something that can be enabled or disabled.
I thought it could be related to UL 1741-SA but don't find it mentioned outside links to research papers.
I haven't seen that inverter status before, not sure I remember it from the Schneider manual either."
Mentioned here, seems to be something that can be enabled or disabled.
I thought it could be related to UL 1741-SA but don't find it mentioned outside links to research papers.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Thanks, my quick google didn't come up with much past the research papers.
I would have never thought to check the modbus map. Now I know I can turn it off, but I'd like to know what it does and how it operates...
I would have never thought to check the modbus map. Now I know I can turn it off, but I'd like to know what it does and how it operates...
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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My XW-Pro is still on the older firmware, so I don't think it has "Grid Frequency Stabilization" but I do have about 6 logs showing it disconnect from the grid due to grid frequency too high. I am not sure what they could try to do with just 6,800 watts to have any effect on the grid frequency. All they have been doing so far is reducing inverter output power as the frequency goes up. In effect, that would increase the load on the grid generators and hopefully slow them a bit. Maybe they could phase shift the output a bit to pull the wave lower, but I would expect that to pull power and turn your watt meter in the direction that you have to pay for. Reducing power to not sell to grid is okay, I guess, but hopefully it does not start to consume power to help stabilize the grid.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Oddly, it doesn't show up under either events tab.
I was thinking it was low frequency and I might have been producing power? It's still not going to make a dent...
I was thinking it was low frequency and I might have been producing power? It's still not going to make a dent...
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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That is odd. I just had another grid glitch, noted it on my thread just now. The XW-Pro and my Enphase both noted grid frequency issues in their logs. Power didn't go out here, but it did drop out at Six Flags Magic Mountain. That is a big load going offline. They were back up after about 30 minutes, no idea what failed, probably just a fuse to get back up so quickly.
shorawitz
Solar Enthusiast
My XW Pro has been working like a champ. I've upgraded to 1.11 and I get all of the extra settings (but I can't find any docs to explain them all.) I'm 100% off-grid and we've been hitting triple digit temps here in So. AZ (+3700 Ft Alt) on a consistent basis (it's actually unusual for us to stay above 100 for more than a few days in a row.) Anyways, I've been trying to supplement my PV production with my XC8000E (only does 30A on the 240 output.)
I've got "Generator Support Enable" on and "Generator Support Amps" set to 20A. I've also enabled "Generator Support Plus" which from the docs is supposed to help a smaller generator keep up by pulling from the DC side. I've had several events where the XW Pro says it's pulling more than 20A and I don't see any support coming from the DC side. I've also experienced the XW Pro cutting generator power and switching back to DC (albeit with a few seconds of off-line power status) and my computers and other equipment have to reboot every time - ANNOYING!
The current docs seem almost useless when it comes to "AC2 (Generator) Settings". Currently, I have to toggle the breaker to get the XW Pro to qualify the generator AC2. Any thoughts?
I've got "Generator Support Enable" on and "Generator Support Amps" set to 20A. I've also enabled "Generator Support Plus" which from the docs is supposed to help a smaller generator keep up by pulling from the DC side. I've had several events where the XW Pro says it's pulling more than 20A and I don't see any support coming from the DC side. I've also experienced the XW Pro cutting generator power and switching back to DC (albeit with a few seconds of off-line power status) and my computers and other equipment have to reboot every time - ANNOYING!
The current docs seem almost useless when it comes to "AC2 (Generator) Settings". Currently, I have to toggle the breaker to get the XW Pro to qualify the generator AC2. Any thoughts?
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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I had similar issue with my old Coleman MaxRun5000 generator. But in my case, it seems to mostly be the governor is just not working well. The RPM is changing far too much with load causing a frequency error and it cuts off back to battery and glitched out my PC and router as well. That made it a bit harder to see what was going on as I could not monitor it as it happened. I did spread out the frequency and voltage limits for AC2 input, but I have not tested it since. I want to try and reconfigure the governor linkage to make it more stable. I had installed a new carburetor a while back, and the holes in the arm are different, so the angle and radius are wrong for the stock linkage. With no load I was able to dial it in to 60 Hz and with a moderate load, it did not seem to hunt too bad, but when the XW-Pro tried to start charging from it at 2,000 watts, it went stupid. It sounded like it was just slamming full throttle to idle and back. And the XW just disconnected. To get some charge in the battery bank, I connected a stand alone 600 watt charger to the generator and that worked just fine. I was also able to move over the refrigerator to the generator output so the 600 watt charger could keep up with the inverter.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Sorry, I don't have a generator here, so I'm not help there.
What I do have is batteries outside in this 109° heat!
Last night around midnight the cells were roughly 100°, this morning with the battery box closed up, it was nearly the same.
With the lid open and some fans to move air around the cool air this morning, I was able to get it down to roughly 85°
The pack currently reads 114f, that is after stacking some shade junk around the box and cracking the lid to let the heat out once the inside was warmer than ambient.
I remember someone sharing a link or having one in their signature about calculating cooling load on an enclosure, but I can't find it now.
Does anyone know where I can find this or have any hints.
What I do have is batteries outside in this 109° heat!
Last night around midnight the cells were roughly 100°, this morning with the battery box closed up, it was nearly the same.
With the lid open and some fans to move air around the cool air this morning, I was able to get it down to roughly 85°
The pack currently reads 114f, that is after stacking some shade junk around the box and cracking the lid to let the heat out once the inside was warmer than ambient.
I remember someone sharing a link or having one in their signature about calculating cooling load on an enclosure, but I can't find it now.
Does anyone know where I can find this or have any hints.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Thanks, I will probably do something like that short term. It will be tough keeping the pack in a good temperature range when the ambient is so high.
Long term, I'd like to keep the inside of the enclosure cleaner. I may try blowing garage air into the enclosure through the conduit. But, the garage is about 100 inside right now, so I wouldn't get much cooling out of it with just a 4 degree delta.
My other concern is that I'm going to blow in almost as much dust as air.
I think if I can somewhat seal the box, I'll be much better off come winter (hold in some heat)
At this point I need to figure out how much cooling (and heating if there is a calculator for that) I need. A thermo electric cooler is a huge waste of energy, but significantly simpler than using refrigerant. I figure if it costs me a little in wasted energy vs time and initial cost I'll be ok. But, if I need 300 watts of cooling on a hot day, my options are going to be limited and I'll need to dig into building or modifying s compressor based system.
Long term, I'd like to keep the inside of the enclosure cleaner. I may try blowing garage air into the enclosure through the conduit. But, the garage is about 100 inside right now, so I wouldn't get much cooling out of it with just a 4 degree delta.
My other concern is that I'm going to blow in almost as much dust as air.
I think if I can somewhat seal the box, I'll be much better off come winter (hold in some heat)
At this point I need to figure out how much cooling (and heating if there is a calculator for that) I need. A thermo electric cooler is a huge waste of energy, but significantly simpler than using refrigerant. I figure if it costs me a little in wasted energy vs time and initial cost I'll be ok. But, if I need 300 watts of cooling on a hot day, my options are going to be limited and I'll need to dig into building or modifying s compressor based system.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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When I was servicing the film projectors back in Chicago, I would use the large air filter they sell for Shop-Vacs on the air intake fan. At 300 CMF all day long, they would clog up in about 6 months in the dustier theatres. We could vacuum them off a few times and get them to last a year or more before we had to replace them.
Here is a high flow surplus DC fan from All Electronics, but it is 24 volt, so you will need a converter to power it.
www.allelectronics.com
Here is a high flow surplus DC fan from All Electronics, but it is 24 volt, so you will need a converter to power it.
24 VDC 235 CFM COOLING FAN
• Comair Rotron Patriot DC Model# PD24B6TDNX• 24 Vdc 1.0 Amp• 172mm diameter x 51.00 mm (6.75" diameter x 2.00")• 235 CFM, 52 dB• Ball Bearings• Three 4" leads• UL, CSA.
www.allelectronics.com
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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I think the heat generated by lithium battery is relatively low.
Some motors are "TEFC", Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled.
You could seal the elements out, but have aluminum fins extending inside & out with fans on both sides. Or just intimate contact (through an an electrical insulator) on the inside.
shorawitz
Solar Enthusiast
Hum. My generator seems to be running fine. I mean you can hear when the load picks up (say the water pump kicks on,) but it seems to chug right along. My problems seem to be with the XW Pro. I can watch the status from the Conext Gateway and it seems to operate within tolerances I've set for the frequency ranges. It's just not using the "Generator Support Plus" feature. Also, the power cutting out when the generator goes offline is the big thing I'd like to fix. I'm going to change out the dead lead acid batteries in my UPS' with some used LiFePO4 so I can at least keep the computers going when the XW Pro trips the power.
On a side note, I have my setup being monitored using Home Assistant. I was able to decipher Schneider's ModBus protocol and have a small application I wrote running on my server that provides an API interface for Home Assistant to query and show me information on Battery SOC, Battery Volts, Battery Temp, Inverter load and state, PV arrays output (I have 2) and charge status along with some temperature reading from the equipment room as well as the Heater and A/C status/control I have keeping that room warm and cool for the batteries and equipment. I just ordered a new "CAN Bus RS485 Protocol Battery Active Equalizer Balance Bluetooth 2S ~ 24S BMS" so I'll use the RS485 interface to get cell status into Home Assistant as well. Then I'll have a complete, automated battery/solar/inverter monitoring solution that I can access from anywhere I have internet.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I haven flipped the grid breaker 3 times and I've never gotten more than a flicker out if the lights, nothing happens on the computers. Seems odd that you're having issues.
I am working through something similar, just not in home assistant. I've never used it.
Have you found a command to bulk charge with the XW? I was just looking a few minutes ago and didn't see anything. But, I haven't given up yet.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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The Modbus command to force Bulk Charge is
Address 0x0165 uint16
Name Force Charger State
Set to 1 = Bulk, 2 = Float, 3 = No Float
Switching from grid to backup, mine is also rock stable, with just a tiny flicker, but when it was trying to track my generator and the frequency moved too much, it did black out for about a full second and crashed my PC's as well.
