Adding Schneider XW Pro
- Thread starter 400bird
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400bird
Solar Wizard
Yeah, that's the way manufacturers do it: minor fault = complete replacement.
That said, I'm planning to connect using the factory balance leads and connectors.
I was inspecting, cleaning, and adding on the last two balance leads.
I was cleaning the shmoo with a bristle brush. The bad news is that I was using a brush with brass bristles.
I blew all the fuses on one side! Ugh...
Looks like the fuses are rated at 630 milliamps. My BMS balances current is adjustable and I believe defaults to 0.6 amps. I'll probably turn the balance current down to 500 milliamps, just for a little more safety cushion.
Fuses were $0.33, but $15 in shipping from Mouser.
Well, it's fixed now.
That said, I'm planning to connect using the factory balance leads and connectors.
I was inspecting, cleaning, and adding on the last two balance leads.
I was cleaning the shmoo with a bristle brush. The bad news is that I was using a brush with brass bristles.
I blew all the fuses on one side! Ugh...
Looks like the fuses are rated at 630 milliamps. My BMS balances current is adjustable and I believe defaults to 0.6 amps. I'll probably turn the balance current down to 500 milliamps, just for a little more safety cushion.
Fuses were $0.33, but $15 in shipping from Mouser.
Well, it's fixed now.
Well, I guess with this practice (by the manufacturers), there is a build-up of the inventory that gets distributed to people like us. Still, seems extraordinarily wasteful.
Sorry to hear about the mishap. At least you didn't do damage and also fixed it quickly. One of the best parts of diy'ing things (for me) is being able to fix my own mistakes. Makes me more willing to try things out.
Last edited:
400bird
Solar Wizard
I'm making slow progress and wanted to share a pic once I've got the conduit run complete. But, wow 4/0 THHN is a huge pain to pull!
Well, the pull is mostly fine. Just working with the conduit bodies.
So, no share. Just tell, mostly complain.
Well, the pull is mostly fine. Just working with the conduit bodies.
So, no share. Just tell, mostly complain.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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It looks like I am travelling up to the bay area next week. Right now I would be driving up June 1st working the second, and driving back down the 3rd. Have you come up with a price for the 3 battery modules? Could we meet somewhere in the area?
400bird
Solar Wizard
PM sent
400bird
Solar Wizard
Slow progress here, but I got 2 of the 14s packs assembled with the voltage sense leads and temperature sensors all harnessed up.
Wow, these are compact.
That is 19kwh per the labels.
Wow, these are compact.
That is 19kwh per the labels.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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That looks great. These are certainly some of the best cells out there right now. The energy density is hard to match, and I don't think there is anything with a higher density. My older Vista 2.0 cells calculate out to about 18 KWH for the 6P14S pack. The most I have pulled out yet is just over 10 KWH, and there was certainly a lot left, but I did not see a reason to push them further. During the power failure, I wanted to be sure I had enough power to get the AC coupled solar to kick on, but the grid came back up so it became a non issue. I started charging with grid power in case it went out again.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I've got the balance connectors and harness saved for you. But, I just realized the cells are fused using a SMD fuse with an "S" label.
My research shows that is a 600-620 mA fuse.
I'm not sure of the balancing current your BMS uses. By chance mine (Barium WM5) is rated to balance at 610 mA. I'm right on the edge, but it should be fine.
My research shows that is a 600-620 mA fuse.
I'm not sure of the balancing current your BMS uses. By chance mine (Barium WM5) is rated to balance at 610 mA. I'm right on the edge, but it should be fine.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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My current BMS has a balance current of 2 amps, but if I just add these cells to my current bank, that would be spread over the 4 banks. If the fuses do pop, I can change them out, they list the same size fuse out to 5 amps. But I may build it as a separate pack with a DALY BMS. My current pack is holding balance so well, I do not expect it to drift much, so the 200 ma balance should be fine.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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I have done a few searches for the Schneider "Smart Charge" mode, and it looks like it is currently only on the smaller SW series inverters. Not on the XW yet under the current software. And even in the SW, I only see it in non USA tech notes.
Here is one of the tech notes from AEE. See page 16 of the pdf
And on page 20 of this application note pdf from fusion energy
Here is one of the tech notes from AEE. See page 16 of the pdf
And on page 20 of this application note pdf from fusion energy
400bird
Solar Wizard
Ugh, so close!
Well maybe not, the info from AEE is from 2017. Four years and they haven't made it to the NA market or the XW line. I'm not holding my breath.
Well maybe not, the info from AEE is from 2017. Four years and they haven't made it to the NA market or the XW line. I'm not holding my breath.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I started a tech support email thread with Schneider to address the false high DC voltage fault. They haven't yet admitted the issue is with the firmware. They keep requesting I make odd changes. Like limiting charge and discharge current.
I tell them the current doesn't matter, the fault is active with just 80 watts is moving. Oh well, I'll jump through their hoops for a couple more days and see if they can figure it out...
Their current thinking is that the high battery cut out (58.8 volts or 4.2 volts/cell) and bulk/absorption (57.4 volts or 4.1 volts/cell) are too close together. They have requested that is increase the difference between them.
I think the fault sets at 56.8 volts, so I can't lower the charge voltages much. And I don't want to increase the cutout voltage much.
I'm going to set the charge voltages at 56.8 volts and see if it sets the fault. Otherwise, I may have to increase the high voltage cut out.
On a positive note, my "safety" labels arrived yesterday and I immediately installed them along with the new "map" or whatever you call the overhead view of the system and disconnects that I am required to put on the service entrance. That means I am ready for inspection, I plan to schedule that for tomorrow unless work gets in the way again. Fingers crossed they only have minor requests.
For the solar they didn't care, just wondered through and said it looked fine. I didn't even have all the stickers in place..
Right now the system is performing great! Just finished a one hour discharge to get paid by ohmconnect and test the system. Pumping 5 kWh (roughly 90 amps) for an hour solid and the battery temp increased by just 3°C!
The inverter fan is running but it is no louder than the hum the thing normally makes...
I tell them the current doesn't matter, the fault is active with just 80 watts is moving. Oh well, I'll jump through their hoops for a couple more days and see if they can figure it out...
Their current thinking is that the high battery cut out (58.8 volts or 4.2 volts/cell) and bulk/absorption (57.4 volts or 4.1 volts/cell) are too close together. They have requested that is increase the difference between them.
I think the fault sets at 56.8 volts, so I can't lower the charge voltages much. And I don't want to increase the cutout voltage much.
I'm going to set the charge voltages at 56.8 volts and see if it sets the fault. Otherwise, I may have to increase the high voltage cut out.
On a positive note, my "safety" labels arrived yesterday and I immediately installed them along with the new "map" or whatever you call the overhead view of the system and disconnects that I am required to put on the service entrance. That means I am ready for inspection, I plan to schedule that for tomorrow unless work gets in the way again. Fingers crossed they only have minor requests.
For the solar they didn't care, just wondered through and said it looked fine. I didn't even have all the stickers in place..
Right now the system is performing great! Just finished a one hour discharge to get paid by ohmconnect and test the system. Pumping 5 kWh (roughly 90 amps) for an hour solid and the battery temp increased by just 3°C!
The inverter fan is running but it is no louder than the hum the thing normally makes...
400bird
Solar Wizard
Well, I "passed" the inspection!
He says I need to wrap the 1.5" rigid conduit that is going to be buried. Luckily it's not buried and the concrete hasn't been poured. Unluckily, the conduit runs in the bottom of the trench with no room to run the wrap tape as it is. So I get to dig more in the trench.
Also, the empty 3/4" EMC conduit I ran as a just in case for communication or whatever has to go. Either replaced with plastic or rigid.
Turns out the inspector has micro inverters and a Schneider SW with a huge 30kw lead acid bank. I realize I plan for larger than that, but my battery could be fit into a roughly 2' cube if I was better at packaging. 30 kw of lead seems like it would take a ton of space!
Also, he is sure that PGE needs to update the NEM agreement. I'm not excited about that.
I suppose I need to add pictures to this thread, hasn't been enough show.
He says I need to wrap the 1.5" rigid conduit that is going to be buried. Luckily it's not buried and the concrete hasn't been poured. Unluckily, the conduit runs in the bottom of the trench with no room to run the wrap tape as it is. So I get to dig more in the trench.
Also, the empty 3/4" EMC conduit I ran as a just in case for communication or whatever has to go. Either replaced with plastic or rigid.
Turns out the inspector has micro inverters and a Schneider SW with a huge 30kw lead acid bank. I realize I plan for larger than that, but my battery could be fit into a roughly 2' cube if I was better at packaging. 30 kw of lead seems like it would take a ton of space!
Also, he is sure that PGE needs to update the NEM agreement. I'm not excited about that.
I suppose I need to add pictures to this thread, hasn't been enough show.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I remember you mentioned it was a bug, I was just hoping to point it out to Schneider again to maybe it will get fixed, lol right
Agree about the code quality, amateur effort.
I am having a hard time with configuration.
The factory manuals seem to be written as reference outline for trained techs.
I’m just a DIY guy, so I have to open a case for every question that I can’t find answers to in the books.
Most recently, had what I thought was a simple question.
“There are Charger settings and Battery settings in the inverter, charge controller, battery monitor.
Which settings prevail, and control the system?”
Schneider says “make them all match”.
Only a few of the configuration fields are the same in the three separate systems.
Most are unique to each device. How does the system software deal with these diverse variables?
All the devices are networked, yet there is no “’central control” that Schneider is aware of to synchronize and manage.
So I’m having to resort to trial and error, poking and tweaking the black boxes to see what output, if any, results.
I am having a hard time with configuration.
The factory manuals seem to be written as reference outline for trained techs.
I’m just a DIY guy, so I have to open a case for every question that I can’t find answers to in the books.
Most recently, had what I thought was a simple question.
“There are Charger settings and Battery settings in the inverter, charge controller, battery monitor.
Which settings prevail, and control the system?”
Schneider says “make them all match”.
Only a few of the configuration fields are the same in the three separate systems.
Most are unique to each device. How does the system software deal with these diverse variables?
All the devices are networked, yet there is no “’central control” that Schneider is aware of to synchronize and manage.
So I’m having to resort to trial and error, poking and tweaking the black boxes to see what output, if any, results.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Yeah, wouldn't that be nice. If Schneider could manage some effort on the software...
I got the alarm 49 high DC voltage figured out. The alarm sets exactly 2 volts below the high voltage cut out.
I guess that works for FLA, where you can just shrug off 2 volts and set the cut out higher.
I want my cut out at 4.2 volts per cell (58.8 v)
I could set my bulk and absorption voltages to 4.0/cell (56 volts) I suppose that's ok.
I'd rather have Schneider fix it!
I got the alarm 49 high DC voltage figured out. The alarm sets exactly 2 volts below the high voltage cut out.
I guess that works for FLA, where you can just shrug off 2 volts and set the cut out higher.
I want my cut out at 4.2 volts per cell (58.8 v)
I could set my bulk and absorption voltages to 4.0/cell (56 volts) I suppose that's ok.
I'd rather have Schneider fix it!
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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As far as I can tell, each device in the Schneider ecosystem does stand alone. So you can have a Solar charge controller have recharge at a higher voltage so it will come on. If you set recharge the same, it would hang up like it does in my AC coupled system. The battery monitor can have different voltage limits to give a good state of charge reading, but then have the limits set in the inverter to shut down with some battery still left in reserve. There are some good reasons to set some different, but it would be a good starting place if you could tell it to sync them.
I certainly am not going to hold my breath for Schneider to make any software fixes.
Since we now know the high battery cutout is 2 volts off, just set it 2 volts higher than you want it, and as long as it is above where your absorb charge setting is, you should be fine. Mine has reliable stopped at my Absorb setting without a problem. But when I was getting the high voltage shut off, they just told me to set it to 64 volts and ignore it. Great tech support there. My absorb setting is 4.1 volts per cell or 57.4 volts for the whole pack. So 60 volts for the high cut out should be fine, (58 volts actual). Next time I have 2 full days off, I might experiment a little.
What batteries and BMS are you using pvdude? What devices do you have? XW=Pro? MPPT 60-150? Battery Monitor? Anything else? How much battery capacity and PV, and what is your typical KWH usage in a day? Are you grid tie with or without a sell to grid NEM agreement?
I certainly am not going to hold my breath for Schneider to make any software fixes.
Since we now know the high battery cutout is 2 volts off, just set it 2 volts higher than you want it, and as long as it is above where your absorb charge setting is, you should be fine. Mine has reliable stopped at my Absorb setting without a problem. But when I was getting the high voltage shut off, they just told me to set it to 64 volts and ignore it. Great tech support there. My absorb setting is 4.1 volts per cell or 57.4 volts for the whole pack. So 60 volts for the high cut out should be fine, (58 volts actual). Next time I have 2 full days off, I might experiment a little.
What batteries and BMS are you using pvdude? What devices do you have? XW=Pro? MPPT 60-150? Battery Monitor? Anything else? How much battery capacity and PV, and what is your typical KWH usage in a day? Are you grid tie with or without a sell to grid NEM agreement?
