New Daly "Smart" BMS w/ Communication. (80-250A)

Yeah, those silicone coated wires can push a lot more current than similar gauge copper wire. They can handle the heat. I used to push 100A through 10 gauge on my race drones. It can handle it.

For continuous, you need to derate still. But in my testing, you can push a lot through that type of wire. They do get hot and resistance does increase, so not the best efficiency wise, but yes, a 250A can handle 250A.
I'm about to wire up a 250 Smart BMS to 13kw of lifepo and am concerned with the wire gauge coming off the BMS. Is there a method most folks use to attatch 0 awg wire to the wing plates in place of the stock 2awg wire?

I tried using google site search to see what others have done and didn't find any results.
 

Lt.Dan

Photon Sorcerer
I have the same 2awg wire on my BMS. The silicone insulation I believe is rated to 200*C, which based on this ampacity chart:


You should be safe to push 293 amps through it.
 
I have the same 2awg wire on my BMS. The silicone insulation I believe is rated to 200*C, which based on this ampacity chart:


You should be safe to push 293 amps through it.
Cool, but I don't want hot wires. Increases resistance and wastes energy as heat.

Is there a standard method to up gauging the leads on these, or am I going to just have to get inventive?

I'm not even sure how the stock leads are attached: are they crimped and shrunkwrapped?
 

Just John

Photon Sorcerer
Cool, but I don't want hot wires. Increases resistance and wastes energy as heat.

Is there a standard method to up gauging the leads on these, or am I going to just have to get inventive?

I'm not even sure how the stock leads are attached: are they crimped and shrunkwrapped?

Under 100 amps continuous, a FET based BMS is a no brainer.
Over 200 amps, you should probably consider one of the relay/contactor based BMS.
The 100 to 200 amp range, probably a FET based is easiest, but it is debatable.

If you require over 200 amps, you might think about a higher battery voltage (just a suggestion, it is after all your setup).
The 250 amp rated Daly, I use for 150 amp. Usually far less. The wires can easily handle that without a problem.

The BMS wires Daly attaches are in a special assembly that is attached by 4 screws to the copper outputs of the BMS (and they use something like NoAlox or Ox-Gard, just FYI). They are indeed crimped and heat shrinked, and actually done quite well. I have actually contacted Daly, and asked about replacing the wires with 0 gauge, even if you order 50 at a time, they insist they won't do it (likely because the part is custom designed as you can see). The best you can do is get the terminal lug replaced with an M6 connection. I'm not sure what size wires they use on their 250-500 amp BMS, since they all have fans (and a cheap Chinese fan won't last more than a couple of years max). So at least their 250 amp BMS, I wouldn't use for sustained current of more than 200 amps, maybe less.
Daly_12v_BMS.jpg



Just my 2 cents.
 
Thank you. So basically you're telling me not to worry about those wires being too small either, then?

My power draw should be %50 or less capacity of the inverter most of the time (<125A @24v)
I have 280ah batteries at 24v so they will be <1c at full load
Victron 3000 multiplus which I plan on running at %50 or less most of the time (<125A @24v)
so I grabbed a BMS with a similar rating. It's my understanding that the 250BMS is good for %50 constant load without issue (125A @24v) as most electronics are.

Sidebar:
I'm very new at this and though I have learned a lot, I know I have a lot left to learn.
I'm putting 13kw of LiFePo into a 27' camper and taking it off grid full time. I've read a lot, watched a lot, and used several calculators, but the simple fact is IDK how much power I'm going to need. I don't suspect this set up will like the Coleman mach 13.5kbtu roof top ac (1200-1600 running watts) so I'll probably end up with an energy star window unit or two instead. Other than that, it just a few small draw appliances. I might fire up power tools on occasion, but even then I have a dimension iron core inverter mounted in my van for those. I'm planning on many 12v items wired right off the aux battery or 24/12v buck.
I don't mean to derail the thread, just throwing it out there.
 

Just John

Photon Sorcerer
Thank you. So basically you're telling me not to worry about those wires being too small either, then?

My power draw should be %50 or less capacity of the inverter most of the time (<125A @24v)
I have 280ah batteries at 24v so they will be <1c at full load
Victron 3000 multiplus which I plan on running at %50 or less most of the time (<125A @24v)
so I grabbed a BMS with a similar rating. It's my understanding that the 250BMS is good for %50 constant load without issue (125A @24v) as most electronics are.

Sidebar:
I'm very new at this and though I have learned a lot, I know I have a lot left to learn.
I'm putting 13kw of LiFePo into a 27' camper and taking it off grid full time. I've read a lot, watched a lot, and used several calculators, but the simple fact is IDK how much power I'm going to need. I don't suspect this set up will like the Coleman mach 13.5kbtu roof top ac (1200-1600 running watts) so I'll probably end up with an energy star window unit or two instead. Other than that, it just a few small draw appliances. I might fire up power tools on occasion, but even then I have a dimension iron core inverter mounted in my van for those. I'm planning on many 12v items wired right off the aux battery or 24/12v buck.
I don't mean to derail the thread, just throwing it out there.
Identical setup to mine (24v, 3000 watt inverter). The inverter will have no problem if you put a start capacitor on the A/C to reduce the startup current. You will of course get a surge during startup, but it won't cause any problems.
The BMS and wiring will have no problems. I have some 10 gauge wiring that gets warm (not hot) carrying a 40 amp charge current. It is warmer than the 2 gauge carrying 150 amps (although mostly under 100 amp). I've tested mine with a 10k BTU air conditioner, a new inverter refrigerator, television, router, and LED lights.

I have a 3200 watt generator, it handles all of this with ease, not even a soft start capacitor on the A/C. The 3000 watt Multiplus inverter shouldn't have a problem, just install the start capacitor.

FYI, you will have a .5C draw at full capacity. 140 to 150 amps.
 

ghostwriter66

"Here - Hold my Beer"
No I am not. My goal is to use a Wireless to TTL allowing a client's BMS to be accessed remotely. This way we can monitor their devices for them. We will setup up a small wireless router at the clients location and it will be used just for reading the BMS. Our staff will monitor all batteries in the field real time for the first six months to a year if the client desires.

HEY when you figure that out PLEASE let me know .. i have been wanting to do that for a while and have just been overwhelmed with constant 12-15 hour days that I just don't have time to tinker anymore .. BUT THIS is important to me .. Thx ... send me a message when done so I know where to look ...
 

ken morgan

Solar Addict
Dahli 16S 200ah with UART and BT.

Learned another hard one today. You can make lots of changes to these BMS's while they are active with no issues. But there is one or two that may damage equipment if you play with them while your solar system is active. After damaging the USB to UART cable I spent a couple hours figuring out what happened.
My XW Pro was putting out about 2,000 watts AC while pulling power through the Dahli BMS. I was tinkering and I needed to adjust "Cell Volt Low" setting using their PC software "PC Master". I adjusted it from 3.05 down to 2.8 giving my inverter and charge controller more of an opportunity to shut down if needed first rather than the BMS. You don't want your BMS to shut down for any reason if possible while your charge controller or inverter are under load. The moment I pressed the Set Icon the inverter shut down. I retraced all my steps even though my actual battery was at 18% SOC while under load I still had about a 6% margin. Well sure enough the abrupt disconnect of the battery while active use ruined the USB to UART cable instantly.
Fortunately I had another one but then I was very concerned about doing it again while trying to figure out what happened. So I wanted to as such make my own from things I had laying around and if it was isolated all the better.

DIY USB to UART if you burn up the one like I did.
I used a Waveshare which has isolation.
USB to RS232/485/TTL

You can find them on Amazon and they don't cost that much. After an hour of testing with some Com apps here is what I found that works perfect.

Set the com port on your Windows machine for this Waveshare device to 9600, N, 8, 1.
Use the TTL port, not the RS485 port.
Open the app, select the port, then open it. If it doesn't work you may have to reverse the send receive wires.

Now if this happens again at least I will not damage my USB to UART hopefully because I have isolation.

Now I really need to figure out how to go from TTL to wireless or hardwire ethernet without Arduino or Raspberry. In other words plug and play remote access via the web for these BMS's. I will start on that in a few days. All ears if you guys have any ideas.

Some pics:

View attachment 50608
The cable I used to hook this up was cut off the one I burned up so you can see the color code for both pieces of equipment.

View attachment 50609


View attachment 50610
The original that I cooked before cutting off the USB side

View attachment 50611
And something that makes haste of balancing new battery packs. Heltec 24S 5 amp active balancer with BT and RS485. Ultra simple to operate and you don't have to spend days top balancing high ah batt packs.
I was looking at the heltec stuff yesterday but had no clue if anybody had used it and what their impressions are.... so what you think of it? easy to use...PITA to use.... does it use resistor packs or does it transfer power selectively form cell to cell? sorry I am a bit of a dumbass with all this new stuff (new to me anyways).
 

Antonius

Solar Enthusiast
Dahli 16S 200ah with UART and BT.

Learned another hard one today. You can make lots of changes to these BMS's while they are active with no issues. But there is one or two that may damage equipment if you play with them while your solar system is active. After damaging the USB to UART cable I spent a couple hours figuring out what happened.
My XW Pro was putting out about 2,000 watts AC while pulling power through the Dahli BMS. I was tinkering and I needed to adjust "Cell Volt Low" setting using their PC software "PC Master". I adjusted it from 3.05 down to 2.8 giving my inverter and charge controller more of an opportunity to shut down if needed first rather than the BMS. You don't want your BMS to shut down for any reason if possible while your charge controller or inverter are under load. The moment I pressed the Set Icon the inverter shut down. I retraced all my steps even though my actual battery was at 18% SOC while under load I still had about a 6% margin. Well sure enough the abrupt disconnect of the battery while active use ruined the USB to UART cable instantly.
Fortunately I had another one but then I was very concerned about doing it again while trying to figure out what happened. So I wanted to as such make my own from things I had laying around and if it was isolated all the better.

DIY USB to UART if you burn up the one like I did.
I used a Waveshare which has isolation.
USB to RS232/485/TTL

You can find them on Amazon and they don't cost that much. After an hour of testing with some Com apps here is what I found that works perfect.

Set the com port on your Windows machine for this Waveshare device to 9600, N, 8, 1.
Use the TTL port, not the RS485 port.
Open the app, select the port, then open it. If it doesn't work you may have to reverse the send receive wires.

Now if this happens again at least I will not damage my USB to UART hopefully because I have isolation.

Now I really need to figure out how to go from TTL to wireless or hardwire ethernet without Arduino or Raspberry. In other words plug and play remote access via the web for these BMS's. I will start on that in a few days. All ears if you guys have any ideas.

Some pics:

View attachment 50608
The cable I used to hook this up was cut off the one I burned up so you can see the color code for both pieces of equipment.

View attachment 50609


View attachment 50610
The original that I cooked before cutting off the USB side

View attachment 50611
And something that makes haste of balancing new battery packs. Heltec 24S 5 amp active balancer with BT and RS485. Ultra simple to operate and you don't have to spend days top balancing high ah batt packs.
Hallo,

This below is what I have done:

I have a DeliGreen (Daly) 8S 24V Smart BMS, and as always there is only 1 (one) UART port, either for Bluetooth connection (Smartphone application) or for USB serial cable connection (PC application). But, I want to monitor the BMS both wirelessly; using Bluetooth (Smartphone application = SmartBMS), and also wirelessly using WiFi/Internet for PC application (PCMaster).

First step, I built the TTL/UART -to- WiFi Bridge, (Serial -to- TCP/IP). I do not use Raspberry nor Arduino, but there must be a device that works as the TCP Server, here I use ESP8266 module, with the JeeLabs ESP-Link firmware installed. After this setup done, I will have the serial data coming from the BMS, available in the format of TCP/IP, which can be accessed on my WiFi network. Then on my PC, I created a Virtual COM Port, set according to the IP & Port address of the WiFi Bridge. DONE…..!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi from my PC, using the PCMaster application. Technically, if I share this port, I can then monitor the BMS via internet, anywhere in this world, (as long as internet is available).

I did not stop here, when I am not working on my PC and just with my smartphone on my hand, and not far away from the BMS (in the Bluetooth signal range), I also want to monitor the BMS via Bluetooth…. So, I also want to connect the Bluetooth dongle to the BMS UART port… BUT, the port has been occupied by the WiFi Bridge…. So, I need to combine this 2 ports from WiFi Bridge and from Bluetooth dongle, to be connected into 1 port of the BMS UART port.

Second step, I built a port combiner, the task of this combiner is to combine the Tx from WiFi Bridge and Tx from Bluetooth dongle, into a single Tx going to the BMS Rx. While the Tx from the BMS can be shared to the Rx of WiFi Bridge and Rx of the Bluetooth dongle. I built this combiner using 3 NOR Gates of the Quad NOR Gate IC, CD4001. DONE….!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi and via Bluetooth…

Still, I do not stop here, now I am decoding the serial data coming from the BMS, and will integrate them into my Node-RED, and this will be presented on the same User Interface as my other IoT stuff running now on the Node-RED… So, I only need to open the Node-RED user interface, and I can monitor & control all my IoT devices, including this BMS, anywhere in this world (again, as long as internet is available).

Attached some pictures of my simple hardware, only has 3 main components, (ESP8266, CD4001, and DC-DC Converter)… Sorry for the quick, dirty and ugly of my hand scratch of the diagram, but you can grab the idea from that….

Regards,

Antonius
 

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ghostwriter66

"Here - Hold my Beer"
Hallo,

This below is what I have done:

I have a DeliGreen (Daly) 8S 24V Smart BMS, and as always there is only 1 (one) UART port, either for Bluetooth connection (Smartphone application) or for USB serial cable connection (PC application). But, I want to monitor the BMS both wirelessly; using Bluetooth (Smartphone application = SmartBMS), and also wirelessly using WiFi/Internet for PC application (PCMaster).

First step, I built the TTL/UART -to- WiFi Bridge, (Serial -to- TCP/IP). I do not use Raspberry nor Arduino, but there must be a device that works as the TCP Server, here I use ESP8266 module, with the JeeLabs ESP-Link firmware installed. After this setup done, I will have the serial data coming from the BMS, available in the format of TCP/IP, which can be accessed on my WiFi network. Then on my PC, I created a Virtual COM Port, set according to the IP & Port address of the WiFi Bridge. DONE…..!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi from my PC, using the PCMaster application. Technically, if I share this port, I can then monitor the BMS via internet, anywhere in this world, (as long as internet is available).

I did not stop here, when I am not working on my PC and just with my smartphone on my hand, and not far away from the BMS (in the Bluetooth signal range), I also want to monitor the BMS via Bluetooth…. So, I also want to connect the Bluetooth dongle to the BMS UART port… BUT, the port has been occupied by the WiFi Bridge…. So, I need to combine this 2 ports from WiFi Bridge and from Bluetooth dongle, to be connected into 1 port of the BMS UART port.

Second step, I built a port combiner, the task of this combiner is to combine the Tx from WiFi Bridge and Tx from Bluetooth dongle, into a single Tx going to the BMS Rx. While the Tx from the BMS can be shared to the Rx of WiFi Bridge and Rx of the Bluetooth dongle. I built this combiner using 3 NOR Gates of the Quad NOR Gate IC, CD4001. DONE….!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi and via Bluetooth…

Still, I do not stop here, now I am decoding the serial data coming from the BMS, and will integrate them into my Node-RED, and this will be presented on the same User Interface as my other IoT stuff running now on the Node-RED… So, I only need to open the Node-RED user interface, and I can monitor & control all my IoT devices, including this BMS, anywhere in this world (again, as long as internet is available).

Attached some pictures of my simple hardware, only has 3 main components, (ESP8266, CD4001, and DC-DC Converter)… Sorry for the quick, dirty and ugly of my hand scratch of the diagram, but you can grab the idea from that….

Regards,

Antonius
GREAT explanation and Phenomenal result .. Thank you ...
 

Campir

New Member
Hallo,

This below is what I have done:

I have a DeliGreen (Daly) 8S 24V Smart BMS, and as always there is only 1 (one) UART port, either for Bluetooth connection (Smartphone application) or for USB serial cable connection (PC application). But, I want to monitor the BMS both wirelessly; using Bluetooth (Smartphone application = SmartBMS), and also wirelessly using WiFi/Internet for PC application (PCMaster).

First step, I built the TTL/UART -to- WiFi Bridge, (Serial -to- TCP/IP). I do not use Raspberry nor Arduino, but there must be a device that works as the TCP Server, here I use ESP8266 module, with the JeeLabs ESP-Link firmware installed. After this setup done, I will have the serial data coming from the BMS, available in the format of TCP/IP, which can be accessed on my WiFi network. Then on my PC, I created a Virtual COM Port, set according to the IP & Port address of the WiFi Bridge. DONE…..!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi from my PC, using the PCMaster application. Technically, if I share this port, I can then monitor the BMS via internet, anywhere in this world, (as long as internet is available).

I did not stop here, when I am not working on my PC and just with my smartphone on my hand, and not far away from the BMS (in the Bluetooth signal range), I also want to monitor the BMS via Bluetooth…. So, I also want to connect the Bluetooth dongle to the BMS UART port… BUT, the port has been occupied by the WiFi Bridge…. So, I need to combine this 2 ports from WiFi Bridge and from Bluetooth dongle, to be connected into 1 port of the BMS UART port.

Second step, I built a port combiner, the task of this combiner is to combine the Tx from WiFi Bridge and Tx from Bluetooth dongle, into a single Tx going to the BMS Rx. While the Tx from the BMS can be shared to the Rx of WiFi Bridge and Rx of the Bluetooth dongle. I built this combiner using 3 NOR Gates of the Quad NOR Gate IC, CD4001. DONE….!!! At this stage I can monitor the BMS wirelessly via WiFi and via Bluetooth…

Still, I do not stop here, now I am decoding the serial data coming from the BMS, and will integrate them into my Node-RED, and this will be presented on the same User Interface as my other IoT stuff running now on the Node-RED… So, I only need to open the Node-RED user interface, and I can monitor & control all my IoT devices, including this BMS, anywhere in this world (again, as long as internet is available).

Attached some pictures of my simple hardware, only has 3 main components, (ESP8266, CD4001, and DC-DC Converter)… Sorry for the quick, dirty and ugly of my hand scratch of the diagram, but you can grab the idea from that….

Regards,

Antonius
Can one also make changes to bms or is it just for monitoring
 

Antonius

Solar Enthusiast
Can one also make changes to bms or is it just for monitoring
Yes, I can make changes on the parameters as well, (not only monitoring).
It is still on going process, not 100% finished, (I am still working on it), because not every day I play with Node-RED, only when there is spare time.
Below example from my Node-RED dashboard, on the Write Parameters group, I can set the parameters we want to have.

1626366940066.png
 

Campir

New Member
I would like to add another device aswell the smart touch screen would this work. Sorry about bad sketch. Was done quickly with 3 input nor gate at the end
 

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Antonius

Solar Enthusiast
I would like to add another device aswell the smart touch screen would this work. Sorry about bad sketch. Was done quickly with 3 input nor gate at the end
Yes, this should work as well. This will need 4025.
I can see on your diagram you wrote 4011 as well, beside 4001, I believe you mean these are all 4001 (not 4011).
4011 is a quad NAND gate IC, although it can be used as the Inverter as well.

Tx combiner like this should work fine, as long as the burst Tx signals are not coming at the same time. If the burst Tx signals are coming at the same time, the signal going out from the last NOR gate will be mixed and have no meaning to the BMS, (the BMS does not understand the coming signal).
As long as there is some milliseconds distance between the Tx signals (coming from ESP/BT/Smart Touch Screen), it should work.
This BMS uses 13-bytes long packet of signals, which needs to be intact.
 

alex68

New Member
@Antonius Hi, great work!
Would you be so kind to disclose how your requests are looking like, those 13 Bytes!
I have problems getting an answer out of the BMS (always only 0x00). I think I'm having a problem with calculating the checksum.
Could/would you please share this info? THX! An example of a working message (request) would be enough.
for example: 0xA5 0x80 (or is it 0x40 I found docus with both values) 0x90 (for the SOC) 0x08 (data lenght?) 0x00 ....0x00 (8x empty data or should it be 0xFF?) and finally the checksum byte

Thank you!

Edit: I found the answer in this entry: The Binary Protocol
 
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Campir

New Member
Hi i am still having problems to get information out of the bms. ihave now just tried to connect esp -01 Wi-Fi module directly to bms uart port and then using HW Virtual port to create a com port then connect the Bms softwre to the com port but not getting any joy. Any suggestions will be great.
 

Antonius

Solar Enthusiast
@Antonius Hi, great work!
Would you be so kind to disclose how your requests are looking like, those 13 Bytes!
I have problems getting an answer out of the BMS (always only 0x00). I think I'm having a problem with calculating the checksum.
Could/would you please share this info? THX! An example of a working message (request) would be enough.
for example: 0xA5 0x80 (or is it 0x40 I found docus with both values) 0x90 (for the SOC) 0x08 (data lenght?) 0x00 ....0x00 (8x empty data or should it be 0xFF?) and finally the checksum byte

Thank you!

Edit: I found the answer in this entry: The Binary Protocol
Hi,
I attach an excel file (in zip), it is just a collection of UART packets that work for my BMS. I collected them by sniffing the serial data traffic, and use them for my Node-RED setup.
About the communication module address, (byte 0x80 or 0x40); the byte 0x40 works for my BMS.
I think I have made all for the monitoring parts, I have used them and monitor them via my Node-RED, but not all for the parameter settings parts, only few, probably I will need continue these parts.
Some color coding on the excel file, just to show the corresponding bytes and the values.
 

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