Possible laundry solution

[ricardocello]

@Roddzilla started this thread off with very nice efficiency measurements for three different clothing load types.
Which is great if you are budgeting energy and are considering this device.

We would need to compare to separate washer/dryers and do similar clothing loads to answer if it uses less energy.
I know for sure my old el cheapo electric dryer was about 6 kW, and it ran for at least an hour (that's 3 kWh alone assuming 50% duty cycle on the heating element), and usually it ran longer.

 

[zanydroid]

There should be an energy star rating for this appliance, and it should have an efficiency rating against a standard test load (though in discussing a Midea HP dryer on another forum some of the folks in the thread were pretty suspicious).

Here is the energystar for the combo unit in question

Product Finder — ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Washers

Compare ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Washers, find rebates, and learn more.

www.energystar.gov

It has a CEF of 6.00 which is pretty good.

Here it is for the full sized hybrid Whirlpool dryer (this is 240V so it isn't an apples to apples comparison, IE I believe this implies that it has resistive elements available if you want to turbo out a dryer load)

Product Finder — ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Dryers

Compare ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Dryers, find rebates, and learn more.

www.energystar.gov

This has a CEF of 5.2

And here is the Midea (sold as Insignia)

Product Finder — ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Dryers

Compare ENERGY STAR Certified Clothes Dryers, find rebates, and learn more.

www.energystar.gov

CEF of 10?!!? (EDIT: which is why folks are kind of incredulous, this matches the best from Miele and other $$$ brands). OTOH this is also a Euro/Asian sized dryer, not a full sized North American dryer

I'm not sure what kind of magic was done on electric dryers to get efficiency improvements. Probably something like avoiding overheating the air / operating at a point that maximizes extraction instead of letting the heat fly out prematurely before being saturated with humidity. Those are likely cheaper and less complex than HP, but I'm sure have largely been implemented by now.

 

[SupraSPL]

@420hmsPA

I've been running a Samsung Dryer on 120V for about 7 months, hot water heater also. The oven/stove works on 120 although the clock doesnt keep time right. I use a 120 induction cooktop and 120 toaster oven for all cooking.

As you said it's nice to reduce the size of these loads and then all these appliances can run on a pair of 120V 3000 watt inverters and when it's just me a single inverter .

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thank you for following up @SupraSPL (great looking cars, especially the RHD)

I'll have to move an L to the N this week.

I love my induction cooktop and convection counter oven.

Didn't even think about the water heater... I've been thinking I'd buy a hphw...
Thanks

 

[Quattrohead]

I'll have to move an L to the N this week.

Unless you delve into the schematics, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the right L.
If you get the wrong one, your controls and motor will not work.
No biggy, just letting you know in case you do it and nothing works anymore ? .....you did not break it.

 

[zanydroid]

With the WH you’ll want to verify that the new config can bring the tank up to sterilizing temp in all seasons. Might need to experiment with different rating coils to dial it in.

 

[zanydroid]

Swapping to 120 wiring will certainly reduce the max draw on the inverter, though I do wonder whether the ? on the dryer will cycle the element in an intelligent way with 25% of the output.

If the controller does something dumb on 120v, or on 240V it was already doing something very clever, you may not decrease the overall energy used

Easiest thing to sort it out is to try it

 

[42OhmsPA]

Unless you delve into the schematics, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the right L.
If you get the wrong one, your controls and motor will not work.
No biggy, just letting you know in case you do it and nothing works anymore ? .....you did not break it.

Thank you. This makes perfect sense to me.

With the WH you’ll want to verify that the new config can bring the tank up to sterilizing temp in all seasons. Might need to experiment with different rating coils to dial it in.

Excellent point that I didn't think of. What I really need to do is put a stainless coil in the coal stove and heat water that way in the winter

Swapping to 120 wiring will certainly reduce the max draw on the inverter, though I do wonder whether the ? on the dryer will cycle the element in an intelligent way with 25% of the output.

If the controller does something dumb on 120v, or on 240V it was already doing something very clever, you may not decrease the overall energy used

I'm not to worried about net energy used, it has me most interested so I can have some extra overhead on my 10kw inverter while the dryer is running. I'll end up buying another one anyway since I see an EV coming in the near future.

Easiest thing to sort it out is to try it

I'll give it a try this week. I'll also see if I can source a 3 or 4kw element so I can keep loads balanced.

 

[Johneb]

I would buy tge all in one so as to increase shelf space in our pantry.

 

[Crowz]

Well I for one realllly like the looks of the ge all in one.

But the real great news for me on it is I got the wife's approval to get one !

This of course means that if it doesn't work out great I have covered my bases and won't be an "I told you so" from her

Tis a good day !

 

[SupraSPL]

The hot water heater will keep the same temp, just takes 4 times longer to do the job. My tank is 80 gallon and takes about 5 hours to reach temp if tank is completely cold. Depending on the size of your tank you probably wont notice the difference. In the process I did realize that my tank loses more than 1kwh every day just idling so I insulated it more to cut back on that loss.

I think the computer in the dryer runs on DC and the power supply can take 120v or 240v so it behaves the same. As far as cycling, it runs the element nonstop from what I've seen and takes about an hour to dry. Very much depends on the size of load and type of material. Use wool dryer balls. I did notice that it dries much quicker if I vent right into the house during winter (through a sock to catch lint).

I suspect it is actually using less energy overall but I haven't tested to verify that. Putting the large clothes outside is like turning them into solar panels. In winter, putting them on a drying rack near the wood stove/ceiling fan is another way to save energy and humidify.

 

[zanydroid]

The hot water heater will keep the same temp, just takes 4 times longer to do the job.

The problem i am thinking of is if the delta between ambient and water is too high for 1.25kW to maintain (my guess at the output at 120v). Also as the delta approaches this limit the water heater will get slower and slower

 

[SupraSPL]

Unless you delve into the schematics, you have a 50/50 chance of getting the right L.
If you get the wrong one, your controls and motor will not work.
No biggy, just letting you know in case you do it and nothing works anymore ? .....you did not break it.

Good call, if you clamp each wire when running on 240V, the lower of the 2 readings is the one to switch to neutral.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

When I first went off grid I used a 5 gallon bucket and washing plunger.

Actually got everything quite clean but left it sopping wet.

I also heated my water in 2 liter bottles set in an insulated box in the sun.

Later I designed a 55 gallon barrel washer for larger loads and several people built one.

 

[SupraSPL]

The problem i am thinking of is if the delta between ambient and water is too high for 1.25kW to maintain (my guess at the output at 120v). Also as the delta approaches this limit the water heater will get slower and slower

Yes about 1100 watts. The tank spends the majority of its time sitting at full temp (constant loss of about 70W of heat roughly) but yeah if a handful of people take showers back to back you could end up with a cold tank for a few hours.

The top element gets priority and it draws the hot water from the top also so it recovers pretty quickly and then works on the bottom element once it can.

As far as legionella, if the intake water has it, some could get aerosolized in a cold shower (same goes for any cold shower now that I think about it) but it won't be able to colonize the tank.

 

[zanydroid]

Got it. 70W standby at some habitable ambient temp implies to me that 1.1kW is plenty to keep up.

 

[Checkthisout]

GE Profile™ 4.8 cu. ft. Capacity UltraFast Combo with Ventless Heat Pump Technology Washer/Dryer​

GE Profile PFQ97HSPVDS
View attachment 172333

That's a lot of cashola vs a free propane dryer off marketplace or Craigslist.

$2600.00 gets you like 1200 gallons of propane which is good for drying about 4800 loads. (20,000 btu per hour max).

?

 

[ricardocello]

That's a lot of cashola vs a free propane dryer off marketplace or Craigslist.

$2600.00 gets you like 1200 gallons of propane which is good for drying about 4800 loads. (20,000 btu per hour max).

?

probably true, but my wife is very happy with this thing!?‍

 

[Johneb]

Plus you can " set it and forget it".

 

[zanydroid]

I just set up a second laundry area waiting for delivery of a different heat pump dryer. Not super sold yet on the combo for my lifestyle, and I'm waiting for sales. The LG is also coming out in a bit.

If these combined units come down in price, maybe I would consider even going to two side by side. You can even do three side by side with an all-electric laundry area. One on the laundry circuit, and then split the 14-30 circuit to two 20A legs on a MWBC.

You can never have too much laundry throughput.