diy solar

diy solar

Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

MrM1 said:
@Koldsimer what did you ever find out from Sig?
Click to expand...
Haven't heard from tech support since thursday. Last response was lets wait and see what the ee over at the battery manufacturer says.

In another post in the general discussion forum, I was talking about the issues I was having with their battery chargers (and issues with the batteries) and someone form Signature came on and suggested I simply "please go ahead and actually use the batteries and let us know what you think".

It was quite the groin kick.

Later in that same thread, they finally acknowledged that the run light protocol was in fact different for the batteries I have. Been trying to figure that out for 5 days so i guess that's some progress.

Batteries still don't work for me and I have no idea why. Gonna talk with a tech at Schneider today and see what we can do.

Thanks for checking up!
 
Can you share a picture of your connection. Check your your breakers and fuse as mentioned earlier if they are good. If possible, power up your inverter with shore or generator power before switching on the breakers to the batteries from the inverter. This worked for me with my Victron inverter as it can take in shore power without being connected to a battery.
 
fatfash said:
Can you share a picture of your connection. Check your your breakers and fuse as mentioned earlier if they are good. If possible, power up your inverter with shore or generator power before switching on the breakers to the batteries from the inverter. This worked for me with my Victron inverter as it can take in shore power without being connected to a battery.
Click to expand...

Sure, what picture would help you?

My Schneider wont turn on with just generator input and no dc. That's a good suggestion though...

Got me to thinking about trying this.
1) With system running normally, turn off invert and charge functions via scp placing system in standby
2) connect generator and switch inverter to ac2 (gen) input
3) Turn off dc breaker
4) If inverter stays powered up, perform battery switch
5) dc breaker back on
6) switch back off generator
7) enable inverter

I'm hoping the inverter will sense both good ac and dc that way and will turn itself on. I could then switch to the lithiums and throw dc breaker, switch ac input back and see what happens?

I know that's essentially what several of you have suggested- making the inverter sense dc load with the scc's.

Gonna run that by Schneider today as well.

I know these Schneiders can be quirky about things, that could be my issue. I just don't know

I do know that I have performed many shutdown startup procedures with the fla's over the past 16 months with zero issues upon startup so...
 
Last edited:
This Li-ion guide Appendix has different start up routines for Schneider approved batteries. Interesting info if you haven't read it. The minimum number of batteries to support inrush current vs battery sizes is interesting. Also have you tried removing data cables from your pack long shot but eliminates another possibility.: https://solar.schneider-electric.co...i-ion-Battery-Solution-Guide990-6359_rev-.pdf
 
Last edited:
Just read the whole thread. It certainly sounds to me like the situation is as suggested by @Hedges and @MrM1: The instantaneous draw when you hook up the LFP to the XW is too much current, the BMS probably cuts it off, the XW sees low voltage and shuts down.

There seems to be either of two things you could do as a temporary fix to get up and running:
  1. Do a pre-charge across your main breaker. There are lots of things that could work: A pretty good length of relatively small wire. Doorbell wire or thermostat wire would do, but you need a good length, like 50 ft. This wire is not made to handle the current, but the pre-charge only takes a fraction of a second so it won't cause a problem. A 50 ohm resistor would be better. Just touch one end to each side of the main breaker for a second or two, then flip the breaker. At that point the capacitors should already be charged, so it should work.
  2. Start up with the FLA, connect the LFP in parallel (there WILL be a big spark due to the voltage difference), then disconnect the FLA. It would clearly be best if you could do this with some breakers or something rather than arcing between battery cables / bus bars.
If either of these work, the problem is almost certainly the need for pre-charge. I think @MrM1 uses a push-button one. I use a resistor in a multi-position Perko switch.
 
Rustic said:
This Li-ion guide Appendix has different start up routines for Schneider approved batteries. Interesting info if you haven't read it. The minimum number of batteries to support inrush current vs battery sizes is interesting. Also have you tried removing data cables from your pack long shot but eliminates another possibility.: https://solar.schneider-electric.co...i-ion-Battery-Solution-Guide990-6359_rev-.pdf
Click to expand...
Excellent information, thanks. I noticed they recommend to close dc breaker before turning on batteries. Would that somehow limit inrush current?

Of course, all the batteries listed with that recommendation are linked to the inverter via bms and I am not so I don't know how applicable that would be to my situation.
 
Horsefly said:
Just read the whole thread. It certainly sounds to me like the situation is as suggested by @Hedges and @MrM1: The instantaneous draw when you hook up the LFP to the XW is too much current, the BMS probably cuts it off, the XW sees low voltage and shuts down.

There seems to be either of two things you could do as a temporary fix to get up and running:
  1. Do a pre-charge across your main breaker. There are lots of things that could work: A pretty good length of relatively small wire. Doorbell wire or thermostat wire would do, but you need a good length, like 50 ft. This wire is not made to handle the current, but the pre-charge only takes a fraction of a second so it won't cause a problem. A 50 ohm resistor would be better. Just touch one end to each side of the main breaker for a second or two, then flip the breaker. At that point the capacitors should already be charged, so it should work.
  2. Start up with the FLA, connect the LFP in parallel (there WILL be a big spark due to the voltage difference), then disconnect the FLA. It would clearly be best if you could do this with some breakers or something rather than arcing between battery cables / bus bars.
If either of these work, the problem is almost certainly the need for pre-charge. I think @MrM1 uses a push-button one. I use a resistor in a multi-position Perko switch.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input- all great suggestions and info.

It may be that i have to try this in the future but I would like to figure out a way to make it work in a more normal, long term fashion. Talking with Schneider today (hopefully) and will update with any relevant info.

Couldn't this just be a bms setting that can be changed?
 
Koldsimer said:
Thanks for the input- all great suggestions and info.

It may be that i have to try this in the future but I would like to figure out a way to make it work in a more normal, long term fashion. Talking with Schneider today (hopefully) and will update with any relevant info.

Couldn't this just be a bms setting that can be changed?
Click to expand...
Well, you probably won't know if the pre-charge solves the problem without trying it. If it does solve the problem, then the long-term solution is.... pre-charge!

Edit to add: Very few BMS's have a pre-charge capability. So no, the BMS isn't going have a setting to help.
 
Tried a few things today with no success.

Attempted to start inverter with all four batteries on but no communication to each other. Inverter just clicks and won't start. Cut dc power at breaker, one battery showed solid alarm light, indicating failure.

Tried same procedure with one battery, same result.

Tried first connecting dc breaker and then starting battery since that's what Schneider recommends for some batteries. Inverter just clicks and wont start.

Schneider techs wanted pics of battery terminals and dc terminals in power box.

Haven't heard anything from Signature since thursday. I get the feeling they are not willing or able to help any further and I'm going to have to figure this out on my own.

Next step I guess is to parallel my fla's to the lithiums and try to start system that way. I will not do this without Signatures approval, because I don't want to run the risk of trashing their batteries somehow.

I can't begin to explain how frustrated and disappointed i am at this point.
 
I got a sales email from Sig today saying they are very backed up in shipping orders. So I think they are crazy busy. But honestly that's no excuse for poor customer support.

I still think it's a battery / bms issue. Either in programing, comms, or a bad part or batteries. What u are describing from the XW sounds like low voltage to me. There just no reason when you connect a 48+vdc source up to the XW that it doesn't power up. I saw a video where Ian at Watts247 stared a 48v growatt 6kw using a 10 amp 48v bench top power supply.

And just an FYI, Ian at Watts247 uses a builder's pencil as his precharge resistor. Apparently pencil lead is conducive and functions like a resistor.
 
Koldsimer said:
So wouldn't my midnite classics just turn themselves off when i disconnect battery at dc breaker? I have always thought they would stay on due to pv power but have never tried as i have always turned them off first and on last when stopping/starting system.
Click to expand...

Yes, it may continue running when you disconnect the battery but will eventually turn off. It will certainly turn off as it gets dark but might turn off immediately if in certain tracking modes and does a sweep to Voc. If it ever goes to Voc for some kind of check, then it will turn off then.
 
I'd still connect up the LFP batteries to the XW with a breaker off between them, then while holding a digital volt meter to XW posts, turn the breaker on and read the volts dc at the XW.

That will tell you all you need to know
 
My first post, read a lot more than I talk.

I have a Schneider XW6848, running on a small Lead Acid bank. I'm waiting on 3 of these EXACT EG4 LifePower4 batteries to ship from Signature Solar to me. So this thread is timely and concerning to me.

I did pre-charge my inverter using a light bulb while hooking it up to the lead acid batteries. It glowed for a bit, so they do pull some to charge up.

I'm not sure how the batteries built in PRE-CHARGE resister works, but I assume it must be a timer or something initiated by battery turn on.

I suggest you shut ALL battery breakers OFF, and hook the battery buss to the inverter, turning all other breakers ON between inverter and buss bars. Then with the batteries connected to inverter turn battery breaker on. That should initiate a pre-charge of the circuit using the built in battery pre-charge resistor. It should be ok to turn them all on at same time, as long as they are going from an OFF to ON state while hooked to the inverter inputs.

You may have already tried that, but I thought I read you was turning batteries on then connecting them to inverter using an external switch/breaker. Thread is getting long, so I may have missed it if you already tried this order of powering up..

It would be a good idea to monitor the voltage at the inverter input while doing this to see what the voltage is doing during power up. Simple voltmeter measuring at the inputs of the inverter is all that is needed. It might happen quick, so a cell phone recording the volt meter could be useful for review.

James
 
Mr-Sandman said:
It would be a good idea to monitor the voltage at the inverter input while doing this to see what the voltage is doing during power up. Simple voltmeter measuring at the inputs of the inverter is all that is needed. It might happen quick, so a cell phone recording the volt meter could be useful for review.

James
Click to expand...
^^ This.

But I don't think it will be quick. Well the sag from 51.2v down to lower than what the XW needs to start might b. But once sagged, it will stay sagged, at least until XW as a load is disconnected.

That might even be a good test on the battery post side. A dvm reading at battery post before xw is turned on, then while it is on and again when back off
 
MrM1 said:
I'd still connect up the LFP batteries to the XW with a breaker off between them, then while holding a digital volt meter to XW posts, turn the breaker on and read the volts dc at the XW.

That will tell you all you need to know
Click to expand...

Trying this tomorrow when i get home from work.
 
Get u some alligator clip connectors (or as Andy at the Off Grid Garage calls them "Crocodile Clamps" ?) for you DVM. Will make these simple tests easier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
BTS not reading for XW Pro 6848
Replies
9
Views
304
fcparks
F
J
Schneider XW Pro 6848 Stuck in AC Passthrough
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
400bird
4
C
Schneider XW Pro 6848 Fault code F01
Replies
12
Views
932
JBertok
JBertok
F
Schneider XW Pro - gramming
Replies
19
Views
614
flpilgrim
F
waterflea
Schneider XW Pro commission
2 3 4
Replies
71
Views
2K
400bird
4
Back
Top