Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Horsefly]

So you think I should call the place I’m buying the inverter from and see if I can cancel the order? They were building me a custom Magnum load center. Last I spoken with them they were still waiting on parts that they were out of stock on. I’m probably stuck with the batteries no matter what since they have already shipped.

I knew I should have sourced all my stuff locally.

I'm on the outside looking in, with no stake in this at all, so take this as just an opinion.

If I were you I would go ahead with your original plan. Magnum is a good brand, and will serve you well. I'd have to believe Signature will eventually work whatever problem they have out, else there is probably a low-tech pre-charge solution possible.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I wouldn't change my plans based on the battery issue. Signature Solar will have to fix them. That is exactly what their batteries are made for, powering inverters. How they fix it and how fast is going to say a lot for their future. Everyone will be watching how they handle this.

 

[MrM1]

So you think I should call the place I’m buying the inverter from and see if I can cancel the order? They were building me a custom Magnum load center. Last I spoken with them they were still waiting on parts that they were out of stock on. I’m probably stuck with the batteries no matter what since they have already shipped.

I knew I should have sourced all my stuff locally.

I wouldn't. I'd DIY my own batteries and not buy the Sig Solar battery

 

[Koldsimer]

So you think I should call the place I’m buying the inverter from and see if I can cancel the order? They were building me a custom Magnum load center. Last I spoken with them they were still waiting on parts that they were out of stock on. I’m probably stuck with the batteries no matter what since they have already shipped.

I knew I should have sourced all my stuff locally.

I would stick with your plan and see if you can find a way to make the batteries work until a more permanent solution is found.

Funny you mention buying locally. It's one of the reasons I went with Signature. They are only 45 minutes away from me. I could have gotten the Jakipers cheaper, (no tax, free shipping) but i figured i would keep my money local and thought i would get extra good service from my "neighbors" if i had any issues. Sometimes plans just don't work as you expect.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

I wouldn't. I'd DIY my own batteries and not buy the Sig Solar battery

I already own the signature solar batteries. I have not yet received them as they are still in transit to me. All these treads started poping up after I bought.

 

[MrM1]

I already own the signature solar batteries. I have not yet received them as they are still in transit to me. All these treads started piping up after I bought.

I thought they were still sitting on the warehouse floor because sig solar had not shipped them yet.

Well either way, they could easily offer a pre paid return label or you could refuse shipment.

 

[MrM1]

But I definitely would not pass on the Magnum just to keep the Sig Solar batteries.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Mine was the ones sitting in the warehouse floor waiting on a freight company to pick them up. I called and got them switched to EG4 LL batteries and now they are stalled in R+L terminal in Texas. I don't know for sure the EG4 LL will work, but Signature Solar says they will.... I should have had them Friday, but who knows when they will ship them 3 hours to their terminal I will pick up from. I wanted to just drive to Texas and get them, but they would have charged me tax if I did that.

 

[Quattrohead]

I feel a little calm down is needed here. This is the first time we have seen this combination and this fault.
As Signature Solar is a local USA company and active here, I am sure they will come up with a fix to satisfy this issue and build it in going forward.
Patience my pioneering friends, it took us a long time to advance from the caves to where we are today !!!!!

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I received my (3) EG4 LL batteries today. Picked them up from the R&L shipping dock, only minor damage to one handle, so I went ahead and installed all of them in my custom made rack and hooked them up.

I turned on the BMS "small switch", on each battery and verified all the voltages was close "they was". The batteries are networked and ID's set.

Flipped the main breaker on the 1st battery and almost instantly the Schneider XW6848 Pro went thru its startup sequence. Followed by turning breakers on remaining batteries. NO issue with power up, it came online like normal.

It appears to be working normally with the EG4 LL batteries. I know this isn't much help with you guys with the EG4 LifePower4 (NO LCD) batteries, but I told everyone I would share my results with them hooked to my Schneider XW Pro 6848.

Picture of them installed in my custom rack I made and everything powered up and ready to run.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

I received my (3) EG4 LL batteries today. Picked them up from the R&L shipping dock, only minor damage to one handle, so I went ahead and installed all of them in my custom made rack and hooked them up.

I turned on the BMS "small switch", on each battery and verified all the voltages was close "they was". The batteries are networked and ID's set.

Flipped the main breaker on the 1st battery and almost instantly the Schneider XW6848 Pro went thru its startup sequence. Followed by turning breakers on remaining batteries. NO issue with power up, it came online like normal.

It appears to be working normally with the EG4 LL batteries. I know this isn't much help with you guys with the EG4 LifePower4 (NO LCD) batteries, but I told everyone I would share my results with them hooked to my Schneider XW Pro 6848.

Picture of them installed in my custom rack I made and everything powered up and ready to run.

Glad to see they are working.

 

[Horsefly]

I received my (3) EG4 LL batteries today. Picked them up from the R&L shipping dock, only minor damage to one handle, so I went ahead and installed all of them in my custom made rack and hooked them up.

I turned on the BMS "small switch", on each battery and verified all the voltages was close "they was". The batteries are networked and ID's set.

Flipped the main breaker on the 1st battery and almost instantly the Schneider XW6848 Pro went thru its startup sequence. Followed by turning breakers on remaining batteries. NO issue with power up, it came online like normal.

It appears to be working normally with the EG4 LL batteries. I know this isn't much help with you guys with the EG4 LifePower4 (NO LCD) batteries, but I told everyone I would share my results with them hooked to my Schneider XW Pro 6848.

Picture of them installed in my custom rack I made and everything powered up and ready to run.

Ok, so now we need to figure out what is different between your system and @Koldsimer's. I don't know much about the ED4 batteries. What else besides the LCD display is different between the LL and LifePower models? Are you (@Mr-Sandman) sure they didn't have time to fix anything before they shipped, I mean as a result of the issues reported here? Just seems weird that you both have parallel EG4 batteries and a Schneider XW Pro 6848, and one works first time and one doesn't.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Ok, so now we need to figure out what is different between your system and @Koldsimer's. I don't know much about the ED4 batteries. What else besides the LCD display is different between the LL and LifePower models? Are you (@Mr-Sandman) sure they didn't have time to fix anything before they shipped, I mean as a result of the issues reported here? Just seems weird that you both have parallel EG4 batteries and a Schneider XW Pro 6848, and one works first time and one doesn't.

I’m assuming the LL has a better BMS?

 

[JoeHam]

I’m assuming the LL has a better BMS?

I’m thinking the problem was the precharge resistor circuit and delay timing.

Not sure if that part is the same in both batteries.

IIRC @Koldsimer also updated his Schneider firmware during the ordeal which could be another possible variable.

 

[Horsefly]

I was just typing my response when @JoeHam posted. Seems like the BMS and surrounding electronics clearly are different, since there is a CAN bus interface and the LCD. I'm not sure why the pre-charge logic or circuit would be different between the two, but it seems you are right, and it must be different.

 

[JoeHam]

FWIW my 18 month old EG4 does have two RS485 communication ports but was before the LCD screen and precharge was available.

 

[GVSolar]

Heads Up: Two entirely different BMS manufacturers - confirmed by Signature Solar telephone support today. And the software/interface for the Lifepower4 version is incompatible with the earlier Eg4-Gyll batteries.
Unfortunate, since I have two of the old models and had planned to daisy chain (rs485) my new Lifepower4 unit with them... No dice.
The download online manual (as previously noted) is wrong all over the place - so it's fly by the seat of your pants to setup - don't try the software included on cd with the unit - it's meant for the new LL model - which I'm told is compatible with the original Gyll units. It took me hours of research to get the new software running.
Changing features/BMS is well within norms - not telling anyone and then providing poor-to-non-existent documentation is not. I have been a supporter and defender of Signature Solar for some time - their batteries have real merit - and running a business can be challenging - but this is not acceptable.
Had I known, I would have held out for the LL model. Bad form, guys...
@signaturesolarrichard @SignatureSolarUS

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

This is going to suck if they don’t find a work around. solar place that I bought my Magnum from emailed today and said it has shipped. Also tracked the batteries and they are on the move again.

I was hoping that all this stuff shows up and I can get it installed sooner then later. My wife and I have been living off grid on our new property for the last 3 months. Only using a Chins 12.8v 300ah battery a 1500w Amazon inverter and a Honda eu2000 powering a 30amp Victron blue charger. We have a larger generator that powers our well pump when needed.

 

[robby]

I just got a 48V EG4 LL.

It is not just the 6848 that is having this issue. I had found this post after I had replied to another post where the person is having the same problem with a LV2424. I had come to the same conclusion as @Hedges that it was a timing issue with the Pre charge resistor.

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepower4-24v-and-mpp-solar-lv2424-issue.32831/#post-418816

One quick note for anybody thinking of bypassing the PreCharge resistor with wire. You will fry the wiring and the FET that is powering the resistor as the resistor is the only thing limiting the current flow from Source to the Drain of the FET.

I just hooked up an EG4 LL to my Sol-Ark Inverter and had no problems but that means nothing because I have three Fortress eFlex batteries in parallel with the EG4.

I would assume/Hope that Signature Solar is controlling the FET via a processor and that they can lower the timing. If they cannot then that is not going to be good.

If I was having this issue the first thing I would try is permanently wiring a 1000uF 100V electrolytic capacitor in parallel with the input side of the external DC Breaker. This would fool the BMS into seeing a load and start charging the capacitor. Judging from the monstrous size of the resistor in Wills teardown video I am going to assume they are using some like a 10-20 Ohm resistor. The capacitor should charge up in under a second and the BMS should switch off the Precharge circuit and engage the full battery power. So within a second you should be able to switch on the Breaker power and turn on the Inverter.

 

[Koldsimer]

Heads Up: Two entirely different BMS manufacturers - confirmed by Signature Solar telephone support today. And the software/interface for the Lifepower4 version is incompatible with the earlier Eg4-Gyll batteries.
Unfortunate, since I have two of the old models and had planned to daisy chain (rs485) my new Lifepower4 unit with them... No dice.
The download online manual (as previously noted) is wrong all over the place - so it's fly by the seat of your pants to setup - don't try the software included on cd with the unit - it's meant for the new LL model - which I'm told is compatible with the original Gyll units. It took me hours of research to get the new software running.
Changing features/BMS is well within norms - not telling anyone and then providing poor-to-non-existent documentation is not. I have been a supporter and defender of Signature Solar for some time - their batteries have real merit - and running a business can be challenging - but this is not acceptable.
Had I known, I would have held out for the LL model. Bad form, guys...
@signaturesolarrichard @SignatureSolarUS

Agreed. What's really infuriating at this point is that for all the talk of "making it right" and "we don't deserve to be in business if we don't make solar better" nobody from Signature has reached out to me to tell me how they are "making it right". They publicly asked for my contact info on this forum (looks good publicly) but guess what, nobody has once reached out to me since this debacle started. The last direct communication with Signature was on Jan 4th when the tech team asked me if I had tried to wire in a resistor to make the batteries work. LOL it says right on their website that these batteries have a " High Resistance Capacitor that can allow ONE BATTERY TO START A 12kW INVERTER!"

I know they have a schneider inverter on the way for testing and I hope they can figure something out.

I also know their solution they have presented to another member here with my same issue to upgrade to the model with the lcd model for $1000 more is not gonna work for me.

I'm still hoping that they can fix the issue and I can get what I paid for but their failures on multiple fronts leaves me with little hope. They can't even spend 10 minutes to correct the errors in the manual or edit their website to accurately reflect that these batteries are NOT starting some inverters so i'm left wondering how much do they really care?