You have it ac coupled to a pv inverter? Details
Eg4 inverter future
- Thread starter G00SE
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To me ac coupling is being able to charge a battery via the output of a grid tied inverter
Zapper77
Renaissance Man
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i assume its micro inverters feeding AIO inverter through the generator port
That is more of what a hybrid inverter is. AC coupling is being able to use solar power from a separate grid tied inverter.
Thanks.
The S*lark 8K is $5K, so Sunny Island is same $ for less W, Outback GS8048 is more $ for ~same W, and E4 18kpv is just rebadged LuxPowerTek.
I’m specifically looking for AC-coupled options at price points below that of S*lark and no higher than those of the:
Conext SW ($1600 for 4400W)
Conext XW-Pro ($3500 for 6800W)
Magnum PAE ($2200 for 4400W)
I didn’t know that MPP had a new AC-coupled offering nor that Midnight has an AC-coupled offering, so thanks for that.
There is also a new range of AC-coupled offerings being introduced by Hoymiles, though it is too early to say where they will end up
being priced.
I guess we’ve got the (preliminary) Nov ‘23 list
.
They list ac coupled for the ip6048 but it seems to work the same as the tp so I'm not positive.
You can get sunny Island a lot cheaper . On eBay I see sunny islands for $2k all the time. Two of those is 12kw and would be in a class above s*lark.Thanks.
The S*lark 8K is $5K, so Sunny Island is same $ for less W, Outback GS8048 is more $ for ~same W, and E4 18kpv is just rebadged LuxPowerTek.
I’m specifically looking for AC-coupled options at price points below that of S*lark and no higher than those of the:
Conext SW ($1600 for 4400W)
Conext XW-Pro ($3500 for 6800W)
Magnum PAE ($2200 for 4400W)
I didn’t know that MPP had a new AC-coupled offering nor that Midnight has an AC-coupled offering, so thanks for that.
There is also a new range of AC-coupled offerings being introduced by Hoymiles, though it is too early to say where they will end up
being priced.
I guess we’ve got the (preliminary) Nov ‘23 list
Glad I'm not the only one who is #neversolark ?
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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You probably know as much as I do on who can AC couple. It's not a feature that I have any interest in.
But there are several members who can suggest options.
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
I think this is the main difference between the ip and the tp. "AC Coupled (single unit support): You can connect the AC output of the grid-tie inverter to this solar inverter's AC output, which will convert the grid-tied system into a Hybrid (grid-interactive with battery backup) system." If you tried this with the tp I bet the magic smoke would escape because it can't sync frequency.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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The ability to receive power from and control a grid-tied inverter.
While pretending to be the grid.
The simplest way I think of AC-coupling is that you have no DC-coupling (no MPPT, integrated or external) and only have AC-coupled solar power available.
At a minimum, this means that in backup / offgrid mode, AC-coupled solar power must be used to charge the battery until the battery is full, at which point it must be shut down (typically by frequency-shift, but relay control on the Gen. Port works as well).
When on-grid, the AC-coupled solar can pass-through if export is allowed (as it would be in the case of legacy grid-tied solar) or if it is a new AC-coupled install without any right to export, it will have to be connected to the Gen port and must have relay control to shut down AC-coupled PV production whenever all AC-coupled power cannot be consumed (by offsetting loads and charging battery).
There are a number of AC-coupled hybrids that support AC-coupling when off-grid but they almost all require an export agreement when on-grid (Hoymiles potentially being one of the first to support True Zero Export when in-grid, but too early to say whether that is only with in-family Hoymiles Microinverters or with any 3rd-party grid-tied solar inverter…).
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
Deye all day, someday.
Pretty certain that is just flushing inventory of the obsolete design. You’re never going to get UL 9540 with one of those and could run into issues getting AHJ approval. No eBay included (at least in my list).
Who knows whether thy have pushed Deye to introduce features they were not already planning on their own or not, but that’s about the only possible contribution they may have made to the State of the Art.
And I’m guessing they offer far better customer support than an MPP Solar or a Growatt.
At least they have done a good enough job supporting installers to have achieved the penetration they have with that community.
I have nothing against the company except first and foremost the misleading marketing (‘made in the USA’ apparently now means moving off of a palette from China and placing into an individual unit box
) and secondly that they are just too expensive for what they do.I believe it’s that second factor of ‘Chinese technology at American Prices’ that has you predicting their demise.
For sure we’ll be seeing an increasing range of ‘Chinese Technology at Chinese Prices’ soon but whether that ends up cutting into Solark’s success with installers enough to drive them to more reasonable pricing remains to be seen…
Amen!
It's gonna be hard without integration between the inverters to be able to get tightly controller zero export.
Enphase's micro inverter and battery system I believe also supports zero export.
That’s certainly the minimum, to be able to operate off-grid with AC-coupled solar power tied to the gen port rather than DC-coupled solar power tied to an SCC (integrated or discrete).
The nuances arise in how that AC-coupled power gets dealt with when on-grid.
Passing through to the AC-input is easy (PASSTHROUGH).
Preventing export by using excess AC-coupled energy to charge the battery before allowing any excess to export to grid is harder (LIMITED EXPORT)
Preventing export by consuming all excess energy and then shutting down AC-coupled solar generation is hardest (TRUE ZERO EXPORT).
Except we can’t purchase them here…
Pretty certain that is just flushing inventory of the obsolete design. You’re never going to get UL 9540 with one of those and could run into issues getting AHJ approval. No eBay included (at least in my list).
Who knows whether thy have pushed Deye to introduce features they were not already planning on their own or not, but that’s about the only possible contribution they may have made to the State of the Art.
And I’m guessing they offer far better customer support than an MPP Solar or a Growatt.
At least they have done a good enough job supporting installers to have achieved the penetration they have with that community.
I have nothing against the company except first and foremost the misleading marketing (‘made in the USA’ apparently now means moving off of a palette from China and placing into an individual unit box
I believe it’s that second factor of ‘Chinese technology at American Prices’ that has you predicting their demise.
For sure we’ll be seeing an increasing range of ‘Chinese Technology at Chinese Prices’ soon but whether that ends up cutting into Solark’s success with installers enough to drive them to more reasonable pricing remains to be seen…
Isn't ul9540 a battery standard?Pretty certain that is just flushing inventory of the obsolete design. You’re never going to get UL 9540 with one of those and could run into issues getting AHJ approval. No eBay included (at least in my list).
Who knows whether thy have pushed Deye to introduce features they were not already planning on their own or not, but that’s about the only possible contribution they may have made to the State of the Art.
And I’m guessing they offer far better customer support than an MPP Solar or a Growatt.
At least they have done a good enough job supporting installers to have achieved the penetration they have with that community.
I have nothing against the company except first and foremost the misleading marketing (‘made in the USA’ apparently now means moving off of a palette from China and placing into an individual unit box
I believe it’s that second factor of ‘Chinese technology at American Prices’ that has you predicting their demise.
For sure we’ll be seeing an increasing range of ‘Chinese Technology at Chinese Prices’ soon but whether that ends up cutting into Solark’s success with installers enough to drive them to more reasonable pricing remains to be seen…
I don't think Schneider or victron have it either.
I would take that obsolete technology any day over a s*###k or 18kpv any day
The 18kpv has already cut into solark success- so much so they dropped their prices. Let another competent box come out in the $3k range and it's pretty much game over for solark. Solar companies are hurting right now due to the demise of net metering- they will be looking for more cost effective solutions
Not really. LuxPowerTek already offers a single-phase AC-coupled inverter with that capability: https://luxpowertek.com/lxp-acs-3600
(Download the manual and read about ‘Mode 1’ and ‘Mode 2’).
Yes, forgot Enphase on my List (though they are even more expensive expensive than Solark once all the bits and pieces are added up…).
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
Agreed, I'd try it just to have something else to tinker with and exercise the brain but the more I read about the less interest I have ?.
I do think EG4 does have a future as ong as they keep parenting with reputable and reliable companies.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Most widely adopted UL9540 requirements are for combined inverter/battery listing. And as AHJs move forward in their code year adoption every AHJ will eventually require it.
I'm not sure how this is different from the ac-coupling available in hybrid inverters like the sol-ark or 18kpv.
I believe it is a standard for hybrid + battery pairing (though a new version for each alone is apparently emerging).
Between UL9540 and CA Rule 21, pretty sure the bargain Sunny Islands you can find theee days on eBay are not up to snuff for approved installs in most jurisdictions…
If I needed to purchase today, I’d pretty much agree (or the new 10kW SRNE). I’ve got a year+ so will watch the evolution of the landscape unfold…
Didn’t know that and good to hear.
I’m 110% with you. I don’t know that we’ll see 12kW for $3K, but the SRNE 10K is under $2000 and I’m pretty certain we’re going to see Solark-like hybrids in the 8-10K range for under $3000 within the next 12-18 months…
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