Just Place new Order on Alibaba- 280AH x 8 for 1260.00 USD Delivered, Grade A to Canada

[ghostwriter66]

Carly, they are taking things quite seriously, from her response I know they are revisiting their packaging and hopefully will consider my suggestions which are inexpensive and easy for them to employ. Yes I ordered 16 cells in one fell swoop ;-) to make 2 24V/280AH packs.

There IS a possibility of an extended shutdown due to the Coronavirus issue but that has not been set yet, there will be notices posted should that happen.

SOOO this is how this sort of backfired on me when i complained to our supplier/shipper. I was having the same probelm as everyone else... I was getting (4) or (8) 200 or 280aH batteries at a time -- and they were literally coming in something wrapped a little better than a paper bag ... I dropped them a note saying that unfortunately I needed to change suppliers becuase by the time the got to south Texas the boxes were literally destroyed ...

My next box came 3 weeks late with EACH cell individually wrapped in BUBBLE wrapped and taped so much I was wearing out blades opening -- then the boxes were all lined on four sides with Styrofoam ... and that was taped like it was going out of style... all in it increased the box size by 50% or more -- and made it a few pounds heavier - BUT every battery was perfect ... so YES -- complaining does help 1000% ... of course now I have 40 tons of Bubble wrap that fills out our dumpster every week .. LOL

 

[ghostwriter66]

There IS a trick to this … a ZEKRET for shopping on Ali* DHGate & others....
Often a company will list the price of "single" units at one rate, then in "bundles" with a slight discount per "item" depending on the size of the bundle, 4, 8,16 cells, in this case. So you must pay attention to the bundle & the "piece" price. Here comes the hard part... Various vendors list things differently AND use different terms... so you really have to pay "very close attention".

Now if you know how to deal with these vendors it helps a LOT... You need to understand that the Chinese Business mentality is NOT like that of westerners and you have to deal with them on their terms... When in Rome, do as the Romans do ! Knowing these wee details can save you money, hassle, time & prevent stress overall. IF you find a product listed at one price "per unit" and a different price in a bundle or "kit" you can "contact the vendor" and do some negotiations, they do not mind negotiating !!! KITS often include the busbars & bolts, sometimes even a BMS and/or box too, so pay attention to that. Some kits can be quite good, while others not so much.

Most importantly keep in mid that there is significant time difference, in my case (EST), it is 13 hours difference ! This can make discussion with a vendor difficult, so adjust your time accordingly so you can actually converse interactively and BE PATIENT ! Many have to supplement their English ability with a translator and that does take time and we all know how lousy some translations can become, so always write simply, in easy terms and be brief. If you have several questions, make them simple bullet points, not a paragraph long question (you'll never get an answer).

I hope that will help anyone placing orders and trying to navigate through the multinational jungle of online sales.

Steve is 100% correct .. DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING .. ask questions ...

I have ordered a ton of these batteries from various suppliers and EACH time I have to make sure that I ask - and get a clear response -- ARE THEY GRADE A? If they do NOT give a clear "YES THEY ARE GRADE A".. but instead I get some sort of "Our batteries are made to the highest tolerances blah blah blah" I will ask them one more time .. and then move on ...

ALSO ask HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO GET IT?? Some of these companies will mail it door-to-door and you get it in 6 days .. others will wait to they get a 40 foot Shipping container full - then ship that to LA - THEN unload and ship to your house -- so instead of 6 days -- its 6 weeks ..

And finally - when asking your question - figure out the EASIEST way to ask it. Some of these guys have an excellent grasp of the English language -- and some don't. SHORT - CLEAR - CONCISE questions are best. Keep it simple. If they get confused on what you are asking they may just make assumptions - and that's bad.

 

[jasonhc73]

Jason ... I just want to make sure that folks know that this is YOUR PERSONAL recommendations and NOT a specific answer for LFP specifications. I say that because according to our industry spec sheets:

For #1. YES HEAT kills 95% of the LFPs that go bad. User error the other 4% and cold 1%. We have found through experience that the BEST temperature range for us is between 10℃ and 40℃ to ensure the performance and available capacity .. However – the battery manufacturer states that his battery will OPERATE (not Charge) in a temperature range to be between -30℃ and 52℃. Everyone has to check their own spec sheets.

#2. Charge and discharge currents - once again it all depends on the manufacturer and the materials they used. i have some 280aH that are designed to do a 1C charge and a 2C discharge all day and not blink. Then again i have some that a .5C will make them into a toaster - Everyone has to check their own spec sheets.

#3. Totally disagree. Our Alaska guys often will charge the LFPs in a heated area (above 35F) and then use them all day in -30C with no affects. CHARGING below 32F/0C is BAD (regardless of what some of this BS that manufacturers are putting out) .. BUT using down to -30 is OK. Sure you are not going to have MUCH capacity life for that one cycle - BUT it will not harm the battery. Everyone has to check their own spec sheets.

#4. We set our batteries to cycle 10% to 90% with zero issues ... some of the other techs go 5% to 100% ... we are talking about a battery that has at a minimum 2000-3000 rated cycles at 0% to 100% .. by you not using 20% of your battery potential are you really going to get that much more cycles ... ??

5. Once again - very little REAL proven info on that ... As long as you are NOT NOT NOT storing the battery -- then hitting 100% and using some of it during the day to keep the particles moving is OK ... me personally 90% is good enough -- BUT THATS ME ... Officially we store all of our LFPs at 40% per manufacturer request.

6. Same answer as Number 5 ...

This is not my "personal" recommendation. It is a copy from the website, that I include in my signature.

It is layman's suggestions, which means if you don't want to go out and do the reading your self, "just do this".

If you want to nitpick it and disagree with it, go right ahead. I think you are way over-analyzing it. Going to the extremes with your examples. I am perfectly happy keeping within 80% of all users on the bell curve.

 

[DW SD]

Just drop him an email asking for confirmation ... he will get it Sunday night your time ...I will tell you though that our particular suppliers are full up and running regardless of the Corona thing as i think most LFP manufacturers are ...

Thank you for the information!
Jason hasn't replied yet from my first message. Hopefully, he'll reply on Sunday night as you suggest.
Doug

 

[ghostwriter66]

This is not my "personal" recommendation. It is a copy from the website, that I include in my signature.

It is layman's suggestions, which means if you don't want to go out and do the reading your self, "just do this".

If you want to nitpick it and disagree with it, go right ahead. I think you are way over-analyzing it. Going to the extremes with your examples. I am perfectly happy keeping within 80% of all users on the bell curve.

I have no idea how giving facts is "going to extremes". Whatever website you got those hints from is having folks LIMIT their battery usage when they don't need to ... Like buying a Lamborghini and then having a mechanic put a limiter on it so you can't drive over 55 .. WHY???!!!

With LiFePO4 there solid Chemistry and Physics and Electrical Science involved .. The issue is that someone sees those "Helpful Hints" -- and then they re-quote them on some other forum but this time not as Suggestions but as FACTS ...

Here's the deal - LFP Batteries are fricking magical ... its one of the ONLY energy sources where you can take 100% -- put back 100% and still have 100% -- I have seen a small work trailer catch on fire - burned to the ground -- and our (40 280aH batteries did not explode - or melt -- YES they let the magic smoke out and we tossed them -- but what other energy source won't explode no matter how much you abuse it???

But you can 1C cycle most of these batteries with no loss -- and you can do that about 1000 times before things start going south just a little bit -- and honestly - even if you abuse the battery - you are still looking at 2000 cycles (thats almost 6 years of use if you fully cycle daily) ... I just don't understand people that get a 200aH battery and then only use 160aH out of it ... its like buying a 12 ounce beer but not drinking the last three ounces -- before you order another beer ... anyway ...

YES I understood that some website had some suggestions or hints -- all i was doing was saying that whoever came up with those "suggestions" probably don't get out in the real world often ...

 

[Rui Ponte]

I’m having trouble deciding on which cells to buy from Alibaba:
I'm using the €/MWh lifetime cost*1 as the actual cost of the cells.

*1 calculated Total Cost / [ Battery V * Battery Ah * DoD * Rated Cycles * 95% Charge-Discharge Efficiency]. See attached pic, for details.

• 280Ah cells from “generic” sellers

On paper, their €/MWh is unbeatable.​

However some sellers of non-280Ah cells are telling me these 280Ah cells are not balanced and that, for that price, they must be grade B cells.
In fact one of the sellers of 280Ah cells actually answered be that his cells are grade B (!).​

Are they indeed lower quality cells? Will the Batrium BMS compensate for the alleged lower quality of these cells? Or will they probably have a shorter lifetime and, therefore, a higher lifetime €/MWh?​

• 240Ah cells from OSN or

Marked as Grade A cells. Very reputable seller. 10 years in business is excellent and they seem to have a lot of products and custom made solutions.​

Unfortunately, the most expensive cells (again, considering €/MWh).​

• 200Ah cells from Deligreen.

Marked as Grade A cells. Very reputable seller.
Using the rated lifetime of 2.500 cycles, I end up calculating them as the most expensive of the bunch. HOWEVER, if I switch to 3.500 cycles as the 280Ah cells, they end up being not that expensive (they lower from 87€/MWh to 62€/MWh).​

Because of their lower capacity, I would have to switch to a 16P3S configuration (the others are 16P2S).​

​

What should I do?
@ghostwriter66 , I believe you can give me valuable information, considering your experience:

• Are these 280Ah cells really more prone to being lower quality? If no, why are they so cheap? Economies of scale?
• Does it make sense to (blindly) follow the cell's spec sheet regarding their cycle life (3.500 cycles for 280Ah and 2.500 cycles for 200Ah)? Shouldn't they all have a similar cycle lifetime, considering they're using the same chemistry? Or perhaps some are using 100% DoD and others 80% DoD?

 

[Rui Ponte]

I have no idea how giving facts is "going to extremes". Whatever website you got those hints from is having folks LIMIT their battery usage when they don't need to ... Like buying a Lamborghini and then having a mechanic put a limiter on it so you can't drive over 55 .. WHY???!!!

With LiFePO4 there solid Chemistry and Physics and Electrical Science involved .. The issue is that someone sees those "Helpful Hints" -- and then they re-quote them on some other forum but this time not as Suggestions but as FACTS ...

Here's the deal - LFP Batteries are fricking magical ... its one of the ONLY energy sources where you can take 100% -- put back 100% and still have 100% -- I have seen a small work trailer catch on fire - burned to the ground -- and our (40 280aH batteries did not explode - or melt -- YES they let the magic smoke out and we tossed them -- but what other energy source won't explode no matter how much you abuse it???

But you can 1C cycle most of these batteries with no loss -- and you can do that about 1000 times before things start going south just a little bit -- and honestly - even if you abuse the battery - you are still looking at 2000 cycles (thats almost 6 years of use if you fully cycle daily) ... I just don't understand people that get a 200aH battery and then only use 160aH out of it ... its like buying a 12 ounce beer but not drinking the last three ounces -- before you order another beer ... anyway ...

YES I understood that some website had some suggestions or hints -- all i was doing was saying that whoever came up with those "suggestions" probably don't get out in the real world often ...

Regarding why using only a 80% DoD.... well... in my case, it's an Excel thing:

• If 100% DoD is 2.500 cycles and 80% DoD is 3.500 cycles, then
• 80% DoD is 20% more expensive (need a battery 20% bigger), but provides 40% more energy during its lifetime.

Of course these are only estimates, but it makes some sense to me.

 

[Steve_S]

Regarding why using only a 80% DoD.... well... in my case, it's an Excel thing:

• If 100% DoD is 2.500 cycles and 80% DoD is 3.500 cycles, then
• 80% DoD is 20% more expensive (need a battery 20% bigger), but provides 40% more energy during its lifetime.

Of course these are only estimates, but it makes some sense to me.

The entire CYCLES things is extremely subjective and you need to have a Cow Lick on hand when considering that. There are a vast amount of things that can affect cycle life from temperatures, to charging rates, over/under charging ad infinitum. Also how a "Cycle" is interpreted and believe me there have been many pixels burnt up in threads over the years on the subject.

I have to also point out, your hung up on the 20% buffer room to maximise the lifespan of the cells & packs, this is your choice right, you can just leave 10% or no %. Remember in Lead Acid word leaving 50% is the bottom edge to get the most out of those, Believe me, I have a stack of Rolls Surette S-550's - Big Heavy gnarly deep cycle batteries.

Other Vendors... seriously, what would you expect the competition to say ? Some are dog eat dog and say whatever to get the sale... see cow lick... Sure there are sheisters & con artists (just like anywhere in the world)… As for the "Amazing Deals" they do happen and usually they are the result of a large batch purchase, especially if a large order had been placed, produced and then the buyer cancels and producer dumps the batch cheap to clear it off the books, dead stock is a no no ! This isn't always the case mind you and prudence & common sense is required.

Like other's here, I am waiting on my 280AH cells, I will test each cell individually before assembling my packs. Some have received theirs are have begun testing them and so far, they appear to be "as advertised". Personally, I chose to listen to what folks here are seeing "in their hands" first, rather than some other "vendor's" sales rep says.

PS: You jumping to conclusions from assumptions based on Sales Reps comments about other vendors products being Grade-B. Does thr Ford Car salesman present a GM car equally ? Again, Cow Lick time...

 

[Rui Ponte]

The entire CYCLES things is extremely subjective and you need to have a Cow Lick on hand when considering that. There are a vast amount of things that can affect cycle life from temperatures, to charging rates, over/under charging ad infinitum. Also how a "Cycle" is interpreted and believe me there have been many pixels burnt up in threads over the years on the subject.

I have to also point out, your hung up on the 20% buffer room to maximise the lifespan of the cells & packs, this is your choice right, you can just leave 10% or no %. Remember in Lead Acid word leaving 50% is the bottom edge to get the most out of those, Believe me, I have a stack of Rolls Surette S-550's - Big Heavy gnarly deep cycle batteries.

Other Vendors... seriously, what would you expect the competition to say ? Some are dog eat dog and say whatever to get the sale... see cow lick... Sure there are sheisters & con artists (just like anywhere in the world)… As for the "Amazing Deals" they do happen and usually they are the result of a large batch purchase, especially if a large order had been placed, produced and then the buyer cancels and producer dumps the batch cheap to clear it off the books, dead stock is a no no ! This isn't always the case mind you and prudence & common sense is required.

Like other's here, I am waiting on my 280AH cells, I will test each cell individually before assembling my packs. Some have received theirs are have begun testing them and so far, they appear to be "as advertised". Personally, I chose to listen to what folks here are seeing "in their hands" first, rather than some other "vendor's" sales rep says.

PS: You jumping to conclusions from assumptions based on Sales Reps comments about other vendors products being Grade-B. Does thr Ford Car salesman present a GM car equally ? Again, Cow Lick time...

I would like to stress out that one of the 280Ah vendors told me that HIS cells are Grade B.
And it's impossible that I'm jumping into conclusions... because I have no conclusions.
I've posted above to seek for experience and knowledge, not to upset you.

 

[Steve_S]

I would like to stress out that one of the 280Ah vendors told me that HIS cells are Grade B.
And it's impossible that I'm jumping into conclusions... because I have no conclusions.
I've posted above to seek for experience and knowledge, not to upset you.

I'm NOT upset at all ! if one Vendor said HIS cells are Grade-B that's fine... maybe post the link to that vendor to be helpful so others know. Otherwise it's moot isn't it.

 

[Carly]

I just got this in my messenger box this morning. AMY is following up on the claims I am assuming she is referencing @Ralo but not sure... not my business anyways. But this says something to me, maybe the rest of you too, so take it for what it's worth.

I just chatted with Amy who contacted me with an update. She told me the following:

• Logistics company has extended its vacation until 17 February due to Coronavirus
• Packing will be stronger for orders awaiting shipping, and all future orders, due to the instance of shipping damage previously documented on this forum
• Has done preliminary testing on my cells, and will do more tomorrow and send video. Sent me a new video of cells being processed (stills attached).

The delay was expected, and I would not be surprised if it is extended again (and again). I can cancel if not shipped by next week, but have no intention of cancelling at this point.

 

[Steve_S]

Indeed, Amy just contacted me as well with the message below. She's good, following up with all the customers ! I haven't gotten that from other vendors I have stuff on order with, somewhat telling I think.

Wan Amy2020-02-10 07:23
Dear Steve,

I have started work today and the preliminary tests for the first orders have been completed.
I will test again tomorrow and will send you the test video of your order. Thank you for your waiting.

In addition, I am very sorry that the logistics company has extended their vacation due to the coronavirus. It is expected to start work next Monday. I will pack the order first. After the logistics company works, I will send it out as soon as possible. Pray for your understanding!

Good wishes,
Amy

 

[John Frum]

I would like to stress out that one of the 280Ah vendors told me that HIS cells are Grade B.

Which one?

 

[Rui Ponte]

Which one?

UNIS Technology Co.
But the point isn't so much which ones are the Grade A's, but more "Are the Grade A's really Grade A?"
For example, Dongguan Billion told me their 280Ah cells are Grade A, however, the spec sheet they sent me is exactly the same as the one UNIS Techology sent me. We're talking the same exact PDF file.
So, 4 or 5 vendors are selling the same product, at the same price, and one says his product is Grade B and the others say it's Grade A??

Having said that, the greedy in me will probably end up buying these 280Ah cells...

 

[Steve_S]

Amy from Xuba responded to me that they are GRADE-A cells from them when I posted the question to her.

 

[John Frum]

UNIS Technology Co.
But the point isn't so much which ones are the Grade A's, but more "Are the Grade A's really Grade A?"
For example, Dongguan Billion told me their 280Ah cells are Grade A, however, the spec sheet they sent me is exactly the same as the one UNIS Techology sent me. We're talking the same exact PDF file.
So, 4 or 5 vendors are selling the same product, at the same price, and one says his product is Grade B and the others say it's Grade A??

Having said that, the greedy in me will probably end up buying these 280Ah cells...

You probably already know this but just in case.
Check to see if they have a QR code.
Check to see if the terminals look pristine.
Check the voltage to see if it matches across cells.
Then capacity test them.

Not perfect but better than nothing for weeding out the imposters.

 

[Ralo]

I would like to stress out that one of the 280Ah vendors told me that HIS cells are Grade B.
And it's impossible that I'm jumping into conclusions... because I have no conclusions.
I've posted above to seek for experience and knowledge, not to upset you.

Yes, please post a link to the seller of the grade B cells. We can do a comparison.

 

[Rui Ponte]

Again, guys, I really hope you don't start to rule out UNIS Techologies based on my information.
In fact, as far as I know, it can very well be that UNIS are the only ones being straightforward in regard to their cells.

UNIS: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/3-2v-280Ah-Prismatic-Lifepo4-Battery_62383387943.html

Dongguan Billion (who provided the same exact PDF file for the specs): https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/LF280-3-2V-Lifepo4-High-Capacity_62379079690.html
Xuba (I'm still waiting for Amy to give me a quote): https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hot-Rechargeable-3-2V-280Ah-LiFePO4_62401469185.html
XLD: https://xinlongding.en.alibaba.com/...V_lithium_ion_catl_battery_lifepo4_280ah.html

These 4 are all selling the same exact specification LFP 280Ah. The first 2 even have the same exact PDF file for the specifications.
The price is about the same for the 4.

@smoothJoey , at this stage I only have access to the online posted pictures and, there, all batteries look pristine. Curiosity: the cells from UNIS have the QR code, even though the seller marks them as grade B.

 

[ghostwriter66]

I am going to say that typically (99%) - when the manufacturer or seller or vendor states that they are GRADE A .. then they are GRADE A ... its when the DON'T state that and YOU assume that they are GRADE A that you get screwed ... ALWAYS ask each and every time ....

SOME shippers are still on leave -- others are working 100% up ... We ordered 16 more 200aH batteries on the 02 FEB and they just arrived here ....

We need to figure out a way of being able to show what prices people are paying ...

Right now I am paying $426.00 for (4) 200aH batteries with Bus Bars and screws to be delivered to BF Texas ...

This is where the quote is from BUT we have not used them yet ... https://shandian.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.38403e5fIL5Auz

It would be nice to know if anyone is getting a better price then that .. PRICES ARE going down .. and lets face it .. 1/2 the price is shipping alone ...

 

[John Frum]

Again, guys, I really hope you don't start to rule out UNIS Techologies based on my information.

I prefer grade A cells.
I would be gob smacked if these are not grade A cells ecpc.

at this stage I only have access to the online posted pictures and, there, all batteries look pristine. Curiosity: the cells from UNIS have the QR code, even though the seller marks them as grade B.

I am suggesting that you test them upon receipt.
For bonus points please share you results.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Deleted original -- found Amy's email .. now how the heck can they NOT have 200aH cells ... no thats just wrong ... !!!

 

[John Frum]

If you indeed receive B grade cells that have pristine terminals and QR codes then we all would really really like to know about it.

 

[DW SD]

I am going to say that typically (99%) - when the manufacturer or seller or vendor states that they are GRADE A .. then they are GRADE A ... its when the DON'T state that and YOU assume that they are GRADE A that you get screwed ... ALWAYS ask each and every time ....

SOME shippers are still on leave -- others are working 100% up ... We ordered 16 more 200aH batteries on the 02 FEB and they just arrived here ....

We need to figure out a way of being able to show what prices people are paying ...

Right now I am paying $426.00 for (4) 200aH batteries with Bus Bars and screws to be delivered to BF Texas ...

This is where the quote is from BUT we have not used them yet ... https://shandian.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.38403e5fIL5Auz

It would be nice to know if anyone is getting a better price then that .. PRICES ARE going down .. and lets face it .. 1/2 the price is shipping alone ...

Appreciate your guidance ALL over the site!

From where did you buy the 200Ah batteries for $426, shipped? I clicked on the above link and with shipping 4 x 200Ah was $747 shipped to San Diego CA. I followed another thread where you recommended RJ Electronics. I'm in touch with them, but their prices are a bit higher and I'd like to buy from them with a credit card (not credit card to PayPal).

I'm tempted just to pull the trigger on the Xuba 280Ah cells, which are $583 shipped quoted on aliexpress based on this thread.

I'd like to buy from a known vendor w/o hassles and fairly quick turnaround. I don't mind paying a little more. These are for RV use, so I won't be a high volume buyer. I'm looking for 275Ah to 400Ah, price / deal dependent. This could be 4 or 8 cells.

Thank you,

Doug

 

[Carly]

Ralo purchased his from Xuba and the terminals were scratched up, so I have no idea what I will be getting (or when).

 

[Ralo]

Ralo purchased his from Xuba and the terminals were scratched up, so I have no idea what I will be getting (or when).

Does the scratches on the terminals mean the cells aren't new? Aren't Grade A? I'd really like to know.