New Daly "Smart" BMS w/ Communication. (80-250A)

[FilterGuy]

Of course one added challenge to the Chargery BMS is adding your relay cut offs.

One thing I like to do with the Chargery is to use the relay signals to turn the loads and chargers on and off rather than try to use relays to directly cut the current. Even if you can only do this on the inverter, it can be a big improvement over trying to use a relay. Below is a design I did for someone that uses a Chargery BMS but no relays.



This was for a van conversion, so it is a bit more complicated than a stationary system where you don't have the DC loads or Alternator charging.

 

[thedodgersonline]

Which one? Did you reverse polarity it? I have 9 Daly BMS and have never had a DOA. Which model was it? Which distributor?

Hi - it was the first of the “Smart” BMS with Bluetooth. I bought it direct off Daly on AliBaba. No I did not reverse polarity it.
Regards

 

[Jeremiah]

So I haven't calibrated yet since I top balanced high again first, shuffled cells, now reconnected.
I do have something funny to show though. Right now there is nothing attached to this battery except for a small ammeter, and the BMS... nothing to be charging the battery.
Check out what the Daly BMS PC software indicates:

see the phantom 1.8 amps coming in?
weird...

 

[Jeremiah]

This arena of questions is part of why I chose the Chargery BMS with a 300 amp shunt for my first DIY LiFePO4 build (and noticed you can go up to a 600 amp shunt). I liked learning (there is more of a learning curve w the Chargery) from having to study all the configuration adjustment options (first by studying manual, and then opinions about the options, and then by doing it yourself). Of course one added challenge to the Chargery BMS is adding your relay cut offs. I figured out some options I liked combining some Solid State Relays with some Kilovac EV200 500 amp rated relays that have a very low 1.7 watt rating for coil clamping relay switch (with their built in coil economizer) after a brief inrush current that closes the mechanic relay switch. I liked finding some of those Kilovacs used at low price on eBay (overkill for my need w up to 500 amp rating/ at good DIY price. My specific needs for relays might be different that many as I am dialing my a 3 unit All In Ones / MPP LV2424 set up. ... just thought to leave my comment as food for consideration. :+)

I was initially interested in the Chargery but at the time someone here had a nightmare post about their experience (I think a few piled on) so as a newbie at the time I decided "no thanks" and went with an ANT for that system. I'm interested to revisit the Chargery for future systems if their smart version is working out well.

 

[Jeremiah]

@Jeremiah, from your statements, it sounds like you are using a clamp-on style amp meter to measure your current. I recommend that you use a shunt instead. It is a much more accurate method of measuring high current.
It seems that you don't know which value to trust, and it is understandable. You should have a dependable, accurate meter like a Fluke and have it calibrated by a traceable lab before you decide which Chinese product to believe. I know it is money out, but if you are 10% out at 10A, things can get dangerous at 100A.

I was just thinking yesterday how I really need a tool I can trust on this. Thanks for pushing me in the right direction !

 

[fguiot]

Hello all,

Not really Solar related but mainly on the Daly BMS as i found the most info here.
I have the Daly 30/60A Smart BMS with the Bluetooth adapter and use the newer app "Smart BMS" from Daly.

Now i want to change some parameters but it requests an 6 number password.
I searched like crazy but found nothing.

View attachment 21381View attachment 21382View attachment 21383

I hope anyone here has an idea since the response from Daly is crazy slow

Thanks!

On iPhone version, the password is not asked.
And all setting displayed by the app are by default zero. So means the app is not reading those from the BMS.
One last thing, the App is not compatible with iPhone dark mode, it it doesn't display all the texts I have reported this to the developper via the DALI vendor on AliExpress. He replied don't enable Dark mode!!! No comment...

 

[Sverige]

Very interesting thread guys. Just yesterday I ordered one of these Daly smart BMSs 4S 80A UART plus the Bluetooth adapter. Now I wonder if i should try to cancel that order it ships?

Can anyone comment whether the software and app issues mentioned in this thread (mostly during May/June this year) have now been resolved? Or is the Daly smart BMS still a product which cannot be relied upon?
I would be using it with a 4S LiFePO4 100Ah battery, with low (8-12A) charging currents and mostly low continuous loads (0.75A - 3A load, 24x7). Maybe intermittently connecting an inverter during summer with 40-50A load drawn.

 

[fguiot]

The App gives you information such as SOC, incoming or outgoing current, individual cell voltage, and confirm the BMS is working. That's it.
For all the configuration, you need to use the PC application.
This setup is not yet in production, but I think I can deal with this on a daily basis.

 

[Sverige]

The App gives you information such as SOC, incoming or outgoing current, individual cell voltage, and confirm the BMS is working. That's it.
For all the configuration, you need to use the PC application.
This setup is not yet in production, but I think I can deal with this on a daily basis.

Thanks. That doesn’t sound so bad, as I would only expect to need to configure it once. After that, using the app to monitor how my system is doing sounds quite ok to me.

And the correct app to use is this one, top left corner of my screenshot? I downloaded this app on my iPad, running iOS 13.7 and it does not open correctly. I see only a blank screen when I open it.

 

[fguiot]

Thanks. That doesn’t sound so bad, as I would only expect to need to configure it once. After that, using the app to monitor how my system is doing sounds quite ok to me.

And the correct app to use is this one, top left corner of my screenshot? I downloaded this app on my iPad, running iOS 13.7 and it does not open correctly. I see only a blank screen when I open it.
View attachment 24728

Yes that's the one. I tried it on iPad: iy's not native iPad app, but it seems working like in the iPhone.

 

[cwilberg]

Hello all,

Not really Solar related but mainly on the Daly BMS as i found the most info here.
I have the Daly 30/60A Smart BMS with the Bluetooth adapter and use the newer app "Smart BMS" from Daly.

Now i want to change some parameters but it requests an 6 number password.
I searched like crazy but found nothing.

View attachment 21381View attachment 21382View attachment 21383

I hope anyone here has an idea since the response from Daly is crazy slow

Thanks!

123456

 

[Sverige]

Yes that's the one. I tried it on iPad: iy's not native iPad app, but it seems working like in the iPhone.

Good to know it works for you - is English language an option as the App Store screenshots are Chinese? On my iPad all I’m seeing is blank screen, but maybe it needs to see a BMS via bluetooth before it will do anything. My BMS was just ordered, so I have to wait.

 

[Dhopewell]

Very interesting thread guys. Just yesterday I ordered one of these Daly smart BMSs 4S 80A UART plus the Bluetooth adapter. Now I wonder if i should try to cancel that order it ships?

Can anyone comment whether the software and app issues mentioned in this thread (mostly during May/June this year) have now been resolved? Or is the Daly smart BMS still a product which cannot be relied upon?
I would be using it with a 4S LiFePO4 100Ah battery, with low (8-12A) charging currents and mostly low continuous loads (0.75A - 3A load, 24x7). Maybe intermittently connecting an inverter during summer with 40-50A load drawn.

I had the phantom charge current as well. My purchase was in August. I don’t know the manufacture date of the device.

Daly told me to do several things but this is all I could retrieve: “pls charge to till the bms protection,dear.” I couldn’t since mine was bricked. Good luck.

 

[Sverige]

Ok, that doesn’t sound too good Shame since this looks like a really cool BMS with lots of potential, but if it doesn’t work I’m going to be mad with myself for ordering before researching it.

 

[Dhopewell]

Ok, that doesn’t sound too good Shame since this looks like a really cool BMS with lots of potential, but if it doesn’t work I’m going to be mad with myself for ordering before researching it.

I was disappointed about it, especially now waiting for a replacement since things are moving so slowly. Daly was helpful, but I lost quite a bit of time in the process.

Lots of people here have success with MOSFET based bms, but I have switched preference from “battery management“ systems which disconnect the battery, to “load management” systems which disconnect the loads. I wonder if a BMS that interrupts battery with FETs scales well to higher current. If I understand the FET bms was developed for scooters and similar with moderate and intermittent loads, and to manage more current like we see now the bms scales with more parallel FETs. Unless the builders who use more FETs also use better FETs that means shorter time to first failure and another bms.

“Load management” may not be quite as easy to set up since other devices must be integrated, but it will scale better since the controller is not directly in line of current, and current is managed by devices that are made to handle it. My loads are an inverter, a solar charge controller, and a DC bus. 2 of those have their own switch I can control remotely, so I only need to use a single switch instead of a bank of FETs.I can keep a spare so if that single switch dies it doesn’t shut me down, and is easy to replace so I don’t need a new bms. I wanted a simple solution to save time, but this seems better to me all around and now that I know more is still pretty simple.

 

[Sverige]

What size Daly smart BMS did you have @Dhopewell and did it fail through getting too hot while current was being drawn, or was it a software/firmware issue? I think you’re right they use FETS paralleled up, then pushed past their normal current rating with the use of a big metal heat sink and sometimes fan. I think the max current ratings promised on these devices should be taken with a pinch of salt at times.

Disconnecting loads progressively (according to priority) as the battery volts drop sounds like a great system. A bit more work to arrange it probably, but worthwhile. I’ll have to think how I can apply this to my own installation.

 

[Haugen]

What size Daly smart BMS did you have @Dhopewell and did it fail through getting too hot while current was being drawn, or was it a software/firmware issue? I think you’re right they use FETS paralleled up, then pushed past their normal current rating with the use of a big metal heat sink and sometimes fan. I think the max current ratings promised on these devices should be taken with a pinch of salt at times.

Disconnecting loads progressively (according to priority) as the battery volts drop sounds like a great system. A bit more work to arrange it probably, but worthwhile. I’ll have to think how I can apply this to my own installation.

I don't believe that the rated current for the BMSs is overstated. I bought a Daly 60A BMS as a cheap starter to practice on. It holds 60A without heating up the case much at all. What seems to be lacking in almost all cases is the wire size to handle the current. In my experience, that has been what overheats first.

Disconnecting loads based on the voltage wound not be a reliable method. The big advantage of the BMS is that it stays on the cells and calculates SOC by how much current flows in or out. The flat discharge curve makes using a voltage based disconnect unreliable.

 

[Sverige]

Thanks @Haugen, you’re quite correct. ? Thanks for pointing out my mistake

 

[Dhopewell]

What size Daly smart BMS did you have @Dhopewell and did it fail through getting too hot while current was being drawn, or was it a software/firmware issue? I think you’re right they use FETS paralleled up, then pushed past their normal current rating with the use of a big metal heat sink and sometimes fan. I think the max current ratings promised on these devices should be taken with a pinch of salt at times.

Disconnecting loads progressively (according to priority) as the battery volts drop sounds like a great system. A bit more work to arrange it probably, but worthwhile. I’ll have to think how I can apply this to my own installation.

I had a 250A bms, and never pushed more than 50A through it. I measured with a laser thermometer and it was within a degree of room temperature. I think my failure came from the battery sensing side.

The first picture shows bms as first attached, everything seems fine. The second picture is after a discharge/charge cycle. It shows the phantom charging current, even with the P- load side conductor disconnected. Cell one shows an incorrect voltage 0.3v low, and the pack voltage shows 0.3v low, which do not match measurement. I used two dmm, a fluke and a Klein. They agreed with each other on voltage and disagreed with the bms. I did a discharge and it worked as intended, then ran a charge. After charging stopped I noticed the weird readings in the picture.

If a better sensor fails the bms protection seems to trigger, so losing a cell sensing circuit will brick the device. That seems to be what happened to me. Given their design I don’t know how this could be avoided. It is a weakness but if it doesn’t happen very often not a real problem. The scooters in my town probably get a few 100hrs of use before something breaks and tether are replaced, so a short life is is not a problem as long as law of averages allows for cost effectiveness.

A bms protects the cell which has the most extreme value from being harmed. A weak cell getting weaker through extreme charge/discharge would destabilize the pack over time, although could be managed as a simple loss of capacity. Shedding loads based on how important thy are allows for more flexibility, like charging to continue, for example.

I don’t think there is something inherently wrong with Daly product, and small bms are probably fine. I don’t know what life expectancy is. But as design current increases the bank of fets gets bigger, and big banks probably get more hours of use than a scooter. I am surprised we don’t hear about devices bricking over sensing circuit failure - maybe I was very unlucky and that circuit is very reliable. But look at the picture and judge for yourself

 

[Sverige]

So i got my 200Ah 12 LTO daly smart BMS in mail yesterday. I downloaded the ap today and had issues registering. I messaged daly and they set an account up for me. (not sure why i need an account but that is for another discussion).

After I added my device it seems to report data well. It was pretty much within 1 or 2 mv of what my Chargery was reporting.

My cells are at 49 mv difference right now I will check in the morning to see if they change much. usually the Chargery keeps them under 20mv difference. I have both hooked up to same battery so I hope they do not fight each other. Currently I have no current running through the BMS. It is a common port which I do not like at all but I still wanted to give it a good chance.

here are some screen shots from the ap
Earlier in the thread it was posted no low temp cut off but this has a setting for it. I will try and test at some point.
View attachment 14528 View attachment 14526View attachment 14527

What is the name of this app please? It looks completely different from the “Smart BMS” app which has been mentioned in this thread more recently as being the iOS app for this BMS.

It’s possible there are two different apps for Android and iOS, but I’m surprised if they are designed to have such a different GUI.