California Members: NEM3.0 impact on NEM1/2 customers and what to do?

[fafrd]

Great thread!

Looks like NEM 3.0 got passed earlier this month.

I'm still a little confused by the info I've read (here and other places).

QUESTIONS:

1. I got solar in 2010, and I believe I'm still on NEM 1.0. What's the easiest way to verify this? I don't see it anywhere on my PG&E bill or on my account when I login.

If you don’t get charged for NBCs, you are almost certainly NEM 1.0.

Calling PG&E and asking is an easy to confirm.

1. Are NEM 1.0 and 2.0 customers grandfathered in for 20 years from the date of installation or from when NEM 3.0 goes into effect in a few months?

THANK YOU!

20 years from the date your NEM agreement went effective.

(But as we learned through this NEM 3,0 saga, the CPUC reserves the right to reduce that 20 year term any time they think it was too generous…).

 

[FilterGuy]

20 years from the date your NEM agreement went effective.

(But as we learned through this NEM 3,0 saga, the CPUC reserves the right to reduce that 20 year term any time they think it was too generous…).

My understanding is different. The PUC decided to void all the 20 year agreements and capt everyone at 15 years. That was confirmed for me when I got a PG&E letter saying they are putting me on 3.0 in January for a system installed 15 years ago.

 

[nifty-stuff.com]

My understanding is different. The PUC decided to void all the 20 year agreements and capt everyone at 15 years. That was confirmed for me when I got a PG&E letter saying they are putting me on 3.0 in January for a system installed 15 years ago.

That's crazy!

If that's the case, then my NEM 1.0 system from 2010 will be forced onto 3.0 in just a couple years. Makes me wonder if I should add just enough solar in the next few months to "lock-in" NEM 2.0 for the next 20 years? Is this an option / possible?

 

[FilterGuy]

Is this an option / possible?

If you find out, let us know........ but I suspect not.

 

[Hedges]

"The decision has no impact on existing rooftop solar customers. Existing solar customers will maintain their current compensation rates."

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cpuc-website/divisions/energy-division/documents/net-energy-metering-nem/nemrevisit/final-december-2022-fact-sheet-nem.pdf

Think that is really true?

 

[solar8484]

My understanding is different. The PUC decided to void all the 20 year agreements and capt everyone at 15 years. That was confirmed for me when I got a PG&E letter saying they are putting me on 3.0 in January for a system installed 15 years ago.

That doesn't sound right. Did you modify the system in any way in the last 15 years?

 

[Hedges]

When did that letter come? I haven't received one.
We understand latest incarnation of NEM 3.0 isn't in effect until April 14th, 2022.
My system was installed about 19 years ago. I expected to get bumped onto NEM 2.0 at 20 years.

 

[Zwy]

My understanding is different. The PUC decided to void all the 20 year agreements and capt everyone at 15 years. That was confirmed for me when I got a PG&E letter saying they are putting me on 3.0 in January for a system installed 15 years ago.

Sounds like a class action lawsuit in the works but the ones who come out on top are the attorneys.

If this is true, contract law as we know it now will be worthless- unless you changed your system since installation.

 

[Ampster]

If this is true, contract law as we know it now will be worthless

I would be curious if it is a matter of contract law. My understanding was that our grandfathering was stated in one of the many rulings by the CPUC which are described as Tariffs. I could find no mention of the grandfathered terms in my NEM agreement which is the only contract I have with PG&E. I hope I am wrong.

 

[fafrd]

When did that letter come? I haven't received one.
We understand latest incarnation of NEM 3.0 isn't in effect until April 14th, 2022.
My system was installed about 19 years ago. I expected to get bumped onto NEM 2.0 at 20 years.

From the CPUC Ruling: https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M498/K526/498526033.PDF

‘Between the NEM 2.0 tariff sunset date and Step 5, Joint Utilities shall pause transitions that would normally occur of NEM 1.0 tariff customers to the NEM 2.0 tariff. This will eliminate the need for customers to understand a tariff on which they would only take service for a short period of time.’

So it seems as through NEM1 customers reaching the end of their grandfather periods will be getting moved straight to the Successor Tariff…

 

[fafrd]

My understanding is different. The PUC decided to void all the 20 year agreements and capt everyone at 15 years.

Where did you see that? The Preliminary Decision from a year ago certainly included that reduction from 20 years to 15 years for legacy customers before our governor stepped on the brakes and asked for more work to be done on the entire Successor Tariff proposal, but I can’t find any reference to that anymore in the Final Decision that was just approved: https://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M498/K526/498526033.PDF

That was confirmed for me when I got a PG&E letter saying they are putting me on 3.0 in January for a system installed 15 years ago.

What was the date of that letter? Was it dated after the recent CPUC final decision?

From the last paragraph of Section 8.6:

‘The Commission finds that the NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0 tariff should remain intact. As discussed above, in the Rulemaking to Advance Demand Flexibility Through Electric Rates (R.22-07-005), the Commission will consider the question of how to reform fixed charges for recovery of certain authorized utility costs. The Commission considers this new rulemaking to be a more appropriate venue to consider the issue of accurately calculating a customer’s energy and grid usage while ensuring that the grid is prepared for the intermittent decrease and increase of usage.’

 

[PreppenWolf]

"The decision has no impact on existing rooftop solar customers. Existing solar customers will maintain their current compensation rates."

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cpuc-website/divisions/energy-division/documents/net-energy-metering-nem/nemrevisit/final-december-2022-fact-sheet-nem.pdf

Think that is really true?

Sounds and awful lot like:

"If you like your Healthcare plan, you can keep your Healthcare plan."

?

 

[Hedges]

"This decision finds a value of $3.30 per watt to be reasonable as the adopted 2023 cost of solar."

Range was $2.34 to $3.80 per watt of GT PV installation.
(My estimate of hardware costs is $1.00/W. A bit more with RSD, a bit less with bargain hunting. Balance of system components including rack mounts are a significant portion.)

Without reading the entire document, I'm not seeing where they address the (4:1?) difference in avoided cost depending on whether you use power as you produce it, vs. backfeed grid and use credits later.
An A/C cycling on and off would slash benefit of PV. An A/C with variable speed compressor controlled to achieve zero export could significantly increase financial benefit but would not hold steady temperature.
Variable speed A/C is likely less efficient operating away from ideal RPM. Multiple neighboring homes with A/C operating at optimum RPM would be more efficient and would smooth out import/export from the neighborhood, but we don't get the benefit.

Electric storage is batteries is what they are pushing for NEM 3.0 users to get shorter payback. Perhaps thermal storage should be considered - a water source heat pump with tank of water for climate control, and an air source heat pump to put hot/cold in the storage tank.

 

[GXMnow]

They (CPUC) did post a few new documents, so it looks like I have a bit of reading to do. From the littl I glossed over just now, they are still going to be granting NEM 2.0 agreements until the end of April 2023. I did not find the term length yet. I would assume any new agreements will be 15 years, not the 20 we used to get. And I did not find if existing agreements are being shortened yet. I will try and read more later this week. But it did mention that the federal tax credit was put back up to 30% and that should be holding. The current ruling for the 30% credit states to 2032. I may have to buy my "legal" batteries under that.

 

[Hedges]

If everything I've read is true, a complete application prior to April 14th (not the end of April) 2023 falls under NEM 2.0
And will remain 2.0, not get bumped to 3.0
Three years to complete the install and get permission to connect.

I have one property I intend to do that for, might be 7.6kW, have to measure the roof.
I'm thinking also about my mountain property, get a connection for ag purposes? Can I make GT PV reservation prior to having service and an account?

Batteries, that other property has a free-standing fireplace in the back yard; I think I know what to use it for! ? ? ?
No rush there; adding batteries to existing NEM 1.0/2.0 does not bump you onto 3.0

 

[FilterGuy]

They (CPUC) did post a few new documents, so it looks like I have a bit of reading to do. From the littl I glossed over just now, they are still going to be granting NEM 2.0 agreements until the end of April 2023. I did not find the term length yet. I would assume any new agreements will be 15 years, not the 20 we used to get. And I did not find if existing agreements are being shortened yet. I will try and read more later this week. But it did mention that the federal tax credit was put back up to 30% and that should be holding. The current ruling for the 30% credit states to 2032. I may have to buy my "legal" batteries under that.

Please let me know what you find. My system was installed in 2007 and they tell me I am going to a new program

 

[time2roll]

I plan to adjust after the fact and the effect of any change is directly listed on my utility bill.
Not going to do anything in anticipation. Waiting for the rubber to hit the road.

 

[Hedges]

Better to pay disadvantageous pricing for a short while, than to invest in the wrong thing.
Changes that were supposed to happen might even fall through the cracks.

What might you adjust after the fact?

 

[fromport]

Please let me know what you find. My system was installed in 2007 and they tell me I am going to a new program

All new nem2 till April are 20 years. I don't know if they shortened nem1 though

 

[time2roll]

What might you adjust after the fact?

Add battery to sell during on-peak rates, charge battery with solar and off-peak rate.
New inverter/battery to go zero export and directly consume all power generated.
Leave it as is.
Remove system completely. (system cost has been fully recovered)
Possibly something else depending on rules and available technology and incentives.

Not going off grid.